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Restraining order

Discussion in 'Legal' started by HOME DEPOT GEORGE, Jan 14, 2009.

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  1. HOME DEPOT GEORGE

    HOME DEPOT GEORGE Member

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    I posted a while back that after 6 years since getting my record expunged and getting my Florida ccw and purchasing numerous firearms I was denied a purchase. Well I got my letter back from FDLE today and it says I have an active court order from 11 years ago. After giving all my guns to a relative I did some research and called an attorney in NJ it looks like I might be able to get it dissolved. Just a bunch more bullsh*T and money for some stupid crap years ago. According to this link my chances look good http://www.paone-zaleski.com/finalorders.jsp I've been sober for years have a good job that could be in jeapordy if upon my promotion to salaried manager they do an in depth backround check. Plus I've lived in Florida for the last ten years with roots and family here(no family left in NJ) Never contacted her after the order was done,besides that the whole thing was a sham to begin with. I believe the court would have a hard time believing that a threat still exists. :cuss:Wish me luck or else the 2nd amendment will just be a dream for me.
     
  2. HeavenlySword

    HeavenlySword Member

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    Good Luck

    Your a good man, being able to stay sober, getting your life turned around.

    Keep it together.
     
  3. HOME DEPOT GEORGE

    HOME DEPOT GEORGE Member

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    What I find really strange is that I applied for my ccw and was approved and after all these years it all of a sudden pops back up on my record. When this happened the court gave me PTI which is an intervention where I complete a years worth of counseling and drug tests and they withhold judgement. I completed everything and was given a letter that all charges were dropped which I thought included the restraining order.
     
  4. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I have a friend that is having somewhat the same kind of trouble you are. It seems that the answer to your question is that there are all sorts of databases out there with this-or-that information on them. While they may all have some of the same information, they don't necessarily have ALL of the same information, and tracking down who-has-what is an impossible task because you have no way of finding out where all of these databases are.

    So when you applied for a CCW the particular databases they checked didn't make any negative hits. But when you were trying to buy a firearm the information had been added to the NICS database by someone and it was updated. It probably came from a court or probation office. So you were turned down. Unfortunately the people in charge don't make any effort to find out if the data they receive is out-of-date and no longer valid.

    Big brother is always watching you. It's for the children. :banghead:
     
  5. .cheese.

    .cheese. Member

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    If your record has been expunged, apply in NJ with the clerk of courts in the district that the case stems from to have whatever case is causing the trouble (I assume it is a DV case) and its disposition sealed. You will need to provide documentation that your record has ben expunged and having an attorney will help.

    I am not a lawyer, nothing I say constitutes legal advice.
     
  6. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    This is because in most work is pieced out to different services. Some of these services (a large growing number) are in other countries like India where despite speaking English know little about American culture and laws (unless you think 24 and Lost are accurate representations) .
     
  7. rscalzo

    rscalzo Member

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    When one applies for an expunged, it applies only to the criminal charges. A TRO/FTO is not a charge but a court order. FRO's never sunset and remain in place indefinitely. Your entire DV history will remain in the database regardless of any expungements. In NJ you will be flagged as unable to purchase firearms. I don't believe any out of state agencies have access to the system which is on the NJ SCIC system. But now (I've been out for three years) they might be forwarded data to a central database.

    You really need to consult a lawyer in NJ that is familiar with DV issues. Many are not that up on them as most lawyers don't want to handle them. I have no idea what it will take to have a FRO dismissed.
     
  8. HOME DEPOT GEORGE

    HOME DEPOT GEORGE Member

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    Just got off the phone with the lawyer and he said most likely this will be dismissed due to the fact that in the last 11 years I've had no contact,been in another state with absolutely no ties left to NJ been clean and sober,right after this happened in 1997 I reconciled with my wife and we will be married 17 years and have been at the same job for 10 years with excellent personnel reviews. Funny thing is my call was the 3rd one he received from FL this week from a person being denied a firearm purchase for a court order they didn't even know they had. He said it's possible either FL or NJ updated their database. Now all I need to do is come up with2500 dollars, there goes my bonus but at least it's for a good cause.
     
  9. edSky

    edSky Member

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    NJ has some pretty strange laws, and while I believe myself to be law abiding, they sure don't make it easy. I was once attacked by a neighbor and defended myself. Since we were both seen in a struggle we were both charged with misdemeanors. He was trying to kill me, just as he had done with countless others before. (Unfortunately a few years later he was more successful and killed two folks in a park.)

    I needed to retain an attorney, pay to have my record expunged, and the only way I walked away without a "record" was by dropping charges against the would-be-killer. Only then, and if he dropped charges against me, would NJ drop charges against us. A real catch-22.

    I wouldn't be surprised if I wouldn't be able to buy a gun in NJ. I'm glad not to find myself in that state.
     
  10. HOME DEPOT GEORGE

    HOME DEPOT GEORGE Member

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    Anyone interested in a collection of uncirculated morgan silver dollars:D Thats gonna be the first thing to go but it will be well worth it.
     
  11. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Member

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    Actually its because there are lots of rules regarding confidentiality of court and legal records. Especially where it applies to databases, they are somehow different than paper records in the courthouse with the same information. In my state I can go into the courthouse and see any paper record I want, but I cannot search the same records on the state's database. Then each court Superior, Family, Chancery, County, State , Local, Justice of the peace, has its own records and record system.


    In some states.... you can get anything you want on a cd for a few dollars.

    The real probolem is that we are required to go through all this nonsense for no reason at all.
    Its really a small number of hardcore criminals responsible for 95% of the crime, and the system will miss the really crazy folks who are going off.
     
  12. HOME DEPOT GEORGE

    HOME DEPOT GEORGE Member

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  13. HOME DEPOT GEORGE

    HOME DEPOT GEORGE Member

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    Just an update the retainer is paid and I spoke with the lawyer today she said they have 5 more of these cases pending and 4 of the last 5 have been dismissed and the one that wasn't was on that was only a year old,mine is 12 years old and I have a new life 1100 mile away so now all I do is pray I don't lose and have to appeal as it took 5 monthe to get the initial lawyers fees. It looks like I fit all the criteria http://www.njfamilylawyer.net/dissolverestrainorder.html
     
  14. Bookworm

    Bookworm Member

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    An 11 year old restraining order? How is it still active, I thought they ran out because they're a temporary thing. Of course, I'm not from NJ.
     
  15. HOME DEPOT GEORGE

    HOME DEPOT GEORGE Member

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    I believe NJ is 1 of 2 states that have whats called a final restraining order and they hand them out like candy up there thanks to Mr Lautenberg.
     
  16. HOME DEPOT GEORGE

    HOME DEPOT GEORGE Member

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    Update

    Lawyer called fromNJ yesterday and said Union county destroyed all the original transcripts from the restraining order hearings so now with no record of any testimony from either side I have to do this from memory. She also said with no transcripts the other party can walk into court and say whatever she wants in order to contest the revokation of the final order. I just hope that the NJ court has enough sense to see that a 12 year old order on a person 1100 miles away from me who I haven't seen or contacted in 12 years is'nt worth the paper it's written on.
     
  17. danbrew

    danbrew member

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    If I were in your shoes, I think I'd talk to my lawyer about you writing a letter to the woman that originally requested the restraining order and then deliver the letter to your lawyer and see if he can facilitate getting it to the woman in question. Obviously a risky thing, so input from your lawyer is definitely required. Under no circumstances should you contact this woman on your own.

    In the letter you should express sincere remorse for the situation that caused the restraining order (even if you don't feel any of it), don't admit to any crime of course, but talk about how your life has changed, how you've been married for x number of years, have x + y children, been sober/straight for x years, etc. and how you've moved on and you hope that she has as well, and bla bla bla. I would not mention guns at all - I'd mention that you want to get this restraining order removed because of your career and the possibility that it may be discovered in a background check and that you're concerned it may impact your career. And you have the opportunity for advancement in your career and it would mean a lot to your family - wife/children/etc. I'd also be very careful about NOT including any information where she can track you or your employer down - you really don't want to hear from her - but you do want her to think that this situation was the result of misguided passions, youth, whatever. And that you've moved on and hope she has as well and that you would be grateful if she would find it in her heart to help you in this matter, but no matter what, you respect her decision and are very sorry for the pain you've caused.
     
  18. HOME DEPOT GEORGE

    HOME DEPOT GEORGE Member

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    I'll have to wait for my lawyer to contact her. I hope the judge will see through all the bull listed on this restraining order. It has 12 of her family members and friends and 9 different addresses listed on it, strange thing is I've never even met all but 3 of these people and one of them was locked up in the Union county jail when these threats allegedly went down. The best thing that can happen now is for them to either be unable to locate her or if they do she refuses to come to the hearing. THIS IS A WARNING FOR ALL NJ RESIDENTS-IF YOU HAVE ANY TYPE OF DOMESTIC ISSUES WITH YOU'RE SIGNIFICANT OTHER RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN FROM THE SITUATION UNTIL IT COOLS DOWN. ALL IT TAKES IS AN ACCUSATION TO END UP IN A SITUATION LIKE MINE.
     
  19. dullh

    dullh Member

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    I feel for you. I hope you get it gone for good. It used to be only wack-o lib places like NJ but this he said-she said gun confiscation crap is everywhere now. Thanks to New Jerkey's own Frank Lautenberg, social hypocrite elitist extraordinaire.
     
  20. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    Good luck. I hope you get a fair honest judge, not some sham of a hearing. The Brady Bill, Lautenberg, etc. are a huge assault on the 2A. We need to unite against it!
     
  21. HOME DEPOT GEORGE

    HOME DEPOT GEORGE Member

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    Well here is the copy of the brief 1. I am the Defendant in the above captioned matter, and I make this certification in support of my application to Vacate the Final Domestic Violence Restraining Order entered in this matter on January 14, 1998. I have personal knowledge of all the facts set forth herein.
    2. The age of the original Final Restraining Order proceeding makes it impossible to provide a complete record of the underlying proceedings. Attached, as Exhibit A, is a copy of the Final Restraining Order (FRO) entered against me. The tape recording of the proceeding is no longer available. My attorney has made a diligent inquiry with the clerk’s office to order a transcript of the proceeding but it was not available.
    3. In lieu of a formal transcript, I will do my best to reconstruct the proceedings from my memory.
    4. Unfortunately, since the hearing took place over eleven and a half years ago, I do not have a complete recollection of it. I was represented by counsel, Steven Altman, Esquire, from Edison, New Jersey. The Plaintiff appeared Pro Se. I recall that the Plaintiff took the witness stand and testified to the alleged offense, which was a terroristic threat. It is my recollection that her Complaint alleged that I had threatened to “get her and her husband,” and that I threatened to “kick her husband’s ass.” Upon the advice of counsel, I did not testify at the hearing. Neither the Plaintiff nor I presented any witnesses, and I do not believe there was any documentary evidence entered.
    5. The Plaintiff and I were involved in a short-term dating relationship for approximately five months. The Plaintiff and I were co-workers at Distribution Management Group in Edison, New Jersey. We were both married to other persons at the time. I was temporarily separated from my wife, and the Plaintiff experienced marital difficulties as well. We had known each other for perhaps four to six months before we became involved in a dating relationship. The relationship ended at least one or two months before the occurrence of the incident, which constituted grounds for the Final Restraining Order. I was in the process of reconciling with my wife.
    6. The alleged terroristic threats were made over the telephone while I was under the influence of alcohol and Xanax.
    7. To the best of my recollection, there have never been any prior incidents of domestic violence between the Plaintiff and me. There have never been any physical acts of violence between us. The only incident I recall was a scuffle with the Plaintiff’s husband, whom she was separated from at the time and who was angry about our affair.
    8. Shortly after the entry of the Final Restraining Order, I relocated to Florida, where I have been living with my wife since 1998.
    9. At the time of the Final Restraining Order, I was twenty-eight (28) years old, and the Plaintiff was only twenty-six (26) years old. I will turn forty (40) on August 11 of this year.
    10. Other than the short-term affair back in 1997, there are absolutely no ties between the Plaintiff and me. We do not have any children in common, do not own any property together, there is no support obligation due from one to the other, and no ties of any other nature exist.
    11. The Plaintiff continues to reside in New Jersey, and I have had no contact with her since 1998. The last time I saw the Plaintiff was at my criminal trial, which stemmed from the same incident, and which took place a few months after the Final Restraining Order hearing (approx. May or June of 1998).
    12. I bear no ill-will toward the Plaintiff, and I have long since moved on, being happily married to my wife for seventeen years now. Last year, I adopted my wife’s son from her prior relationship.
    13. I have never violated the terms of the Final Restraining Order. As I have mentioned, I have had no contact whatsoever with the Plaintiff or any other individuals listed on the Final Restraining Order. In fact, I am not sure why there were as many as eight people listed on the Final Restraining Order, as I had only met three of them in person. I had never met the other individuals face-to-face. I had met the Plaintiff’s husband, Joseph ********, her brother, Jose, and our co-worker, Diane *******. The other individuals are the Plaintiff’s other brother, her two sisters, one of the sisters’ husband, and the Plaintiff’s husband’s brother. Again, I have never, ever met these individuals either before or after the entry of the Final Restraining Order.
    14. As I have mentioned, the incident that resulted in the entry of the Final Restraining Order triggered criminal proceedings against me, in addition to the FRO. I entered into the Pre Trial Intervention program (PTI), which is designated for first time offenders, with the goal of rehabilitation. I successfully completed PTI after one year (see Exhibit B). I have undergone a successful alcohol and drug treatment in 2000, and have been, essentially, sober for almost nine years, except for a short relapse in 2006. Following the relapse, I immediately resumed treatment at the same facility, and have been sober ever since (see Exhibit C). I continue to attend AA meetings although, at this point, I do not have to go daily. I hereby attach a letter from my AA sponsor (see Exhibit D).
    15. I do not suffer from any mental health conditions, and do not take any psychiatric medication. Back in 1998, when the alleged incident occurred, I was on Xanax for a short period of time. That was the most turbulent period of my life, when I was separated from my wife and engaged in an extra-marital affair with the Plaintiff.
    16. Except for the Final Restraining Order, I have no criminal record, and I have not been arrested on any charges for the last eleven years.
    17. I am almost forty years old, and generally of good health, although I have diabetes managed with medication, and I had two back surgeries last year, including a surgery on a fractured vertebrae in my neck and a herniated disc in my lower back.
    18. For ______ years, I have been employed at Home Depot in ________, Florida. On July 31, 2009, I found out that my wife suffers from multiple sclerosis. Therefore, I resigned from the position of an hourly supervisor, as I do not believe I will be able to handle a highly demanding managerial position at this difficult time for our family. However, if I ever apply for a promotion, I will most likely be denied because my background check would reveal the existence of the Final Restraining Order from 1998. In fact, I was unaware that this Final Restraining Order was still on the record until I recently applied for a rifle permit in order to take my son hunting.
    19. I have no intention of returning to New Jersey. A background check on me in Florida revealed the existence of this eleven (11) year old restraining order. It is no longer serving its intended purpose, but rather it exists merely to stigmatize me. I have no intention of contacting the Plaintiff or any other individual listed on the Final Restraining Order. I simply submit, in light of all the attendant facts and circumstances, that there is no need to continue this restraining order. Therefore, I respectfully request that the Court vacate the Final Restraining Order dated January 14, 1998.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2009
  22. HOME DEPOT GEORGE

    HOME DEPOT GEORGE Member

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    It's all up to the judge now

    Monday I'll be sending the letter from my AA sponsor after that I'm at the mercy of the superior court of Union County NJ.
     
  23. danbrew

    danbrew member

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    If it were me...

    I think I'd edit the post above to remove all of the names. What's going to happen when some joker somewhere that knows one of those people googles their name and comes up with this story? The person in the story is gonna hear about it. A 2 second google tells me where Joseph Torsiello can be found, as well as his son and somebody in his family that is a doctor in Midland Park NJ.

    Also, did your lawyer suggest this format? Has the letter already gone out? I'm not sure I would have included some of the things that you did - not to alter history, but because the judge that will be reviewing this case will only know what you tell her about it since the records are lost. Yes, they may very well reach out to the opposing party to get their two cents, but you have the preemptive opportunity to set the stage. I think you could have told a better story with your letter, to be honest. There's not much in your letter that makes me, a non-biased third party, say "hmm, good point, let's vacate this order". Section 7 doesn't make me feel good at all. Section 13 is somewhat argumentative. What was the result of the criminal trial? Unless you were acquitted, the use of the word "alleged" throughout will not likely be viewed favorably by a judge.

    You might as well have said "I made the threats while I was stoned." I'm not sure that this reference needed to be made at all. It makes it sound as if you are denying you said them by using alleged, yet six words later you say you were under the influence.

    You might want to seek the advice of an attorney in NJ and one that routinely works with this particular court.

    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2009
  24. mokin

    mokin Member

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    Best of luck. I worked with a guy who lost his job and his ability to posses a firearm due to a domestic situation and another who refused to protect himself from a potential situation. I feel for you, sir.
     
  25. Tim the student

    Tim the student Member

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    Yeah, I would do this right now. Like right now.
     
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