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Retaining pin stuck

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing and Repairs' started by Johnm1, May 30, 2020.

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  1. Johnm1

    Johnm1 Member

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    The firearm is a H&R Self Loader in 32. But in This case the firearm isn't really important as this could happen on almost any gun with a pin like this. In the below diagram the parts are circled and this pin retains the rear cap. The pin will not come out to engage in the rear cap. It is pushed in and the spring is 100% compressed. There is no movement of the pin by pushing on the pin. It is just stuck. I can only surmise that there is a burr on the pin and it is wedged in place. I have soaked it in Kroil for days and also froze it/heated it to see if I could coax some movement out of it to no avail. I suspect the only answer is to drill it out. But before i go there i was hoping to someone here might have some experience and might have a less destructive alternative. 20200530_075918.jpg 20200530_075642.jpg
    20200530_074931.jpg 20200530_074843.jpg

    Drilling might be quite difficult. I suspect the pin will want to spin, so I'm hoping there is another option. I just cant think of what it might be.
     
  2. Obturation

    Obturation Member

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    I'd try some inertia, drill a hole in a wood block the slide fits in with some material removed in case the pin decides to come out and give it some good whacks.
     
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  3. Old Shooter

    Old Shooter Member

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    If you decide to drill it and it spins that would be good, no?
    At that point it may decide to come out on it's own.
    I would order the replacement pin and spring to have on hand and give it a go.
     
  4. Johnm1

    Johnm1 Member

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    I'll give this a try. Depending on what shape I cut the wood I could develop quite a bit of inertia. Thanks!

    You may be right Old Shooter. I hope you are right if I have to go that route.
     
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  5. Obturation

    Obturation Member

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    ...or do you have any super strong magnets?
     
  6. entropy

    entropy Member

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    First, I'd try a wood block and inertia. Then I'd squirt some PB Blaster or Brake Cleaner on it , let it sit (PB only) and try inertia on a wood block. Then I would try a needle torch (the mini butane torches) on the surrounding metal and a heat sink of some sort on the pin itself. then apply inertia.

    That Kroil you have sitting in the background might work in place of PB Blaster. Looks like it's got some crud jammed on the top side of it, but that just might be the pic.

    Never put finished external surfaces in a vise unpadded.
     
  7. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    Is there any forward movement at all? Is so it may help in loosening it up so it can be knocked out. Inertia is you best friend on this one. A little heat and Kroil will help it creep in.
     
  8. Johnm1

    Johnm1 Member

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    I've been working the Kroil, heat, and inertia so far without success. But I'm going to keep at it. I'm patient.

    FYI the vice is plastic with soft rubber jaws. I just use it to hold things that dont need any force applied.
     
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  9. Johnm1

    Johnm1 Member

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    Blue

    There is no movement. It appears to be wedged.
     
  10. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    Are you impacting on something solid with no movement? Like a steel anvil or concrete floor. Hitting wood will absorb most of the energy.
     
  11. entropy

    entropy Member

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    If you don't absorb some of the energy, it will damage the parts. In this case it would bend the slide, rendering it useless, which would be a travesty with such a collectible pistol. The hard part with this one is having a piece of wood that fits the area below the slide stop release on the back of the slide. The best solution would be to fit a piece to hold the whole slide, but it might not be necessary.
     
  12. Obturation

    Obturation Member

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    How about blasting compressed air in the hole?
     
  13. Johnm1

    Johnm1 Member

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    Right now I'm using a wood block held in place on the flat of the back of the slide by hand and holding the slide in my hand. It's awkward but the safest way I can think of to not damage the part. As it is I have used light taps with a small hammer, the kind that comes with a drift pin set, around the slide just to see if I can jar it loose and get even a tiny bit of movement. There were some 'ill advised' taps on/near the slots the rear plate slides into and I can feel that I have closed that slot a tiny bit as there is now more resistance sliding the rear plate into place. Some of the 'light taps' were obviously more than 'light'. The one problem with inertia is the pin is tiny and has very little mass. Progress, if we can make any, will almost be on the microscopic level. I try to turn the pin with a small bit but I'm not sure it has rotated even a fraction. But I'm patient and I can work it for weeks if I need to. This is a fun gun and I don't rely on it for anything else.

    If it comes to it and I need to drill it out, I'm going to have my gunsmith do the drilling. None of the equipment I have is accurate enough to drill a pin that small and not 'wallow' out the hole in the slide. But, I'm not there yet.

    I may use a little bit of compressed air and/or compressed oil/cleaner. But I'm not there yet either. Because there are unknowns I will continue to move slow. I shot it yesterday and it shot well other than I had to return the back plate to its position after every shot.

    FYI - I have a 'turn off' flintlock pistol that won't turn off. I have been working that one for a couple of months. Soak, freeze, heat, turn repeat. It may never come off as it is a least 206 years old (if it was made the last year produced). Again, I'm patient.

    Thanks everyone for your ideas.
     
  14. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    The pin's mass is low. . . no surprise it won't move under it's own inertial.

    I think it's time for a drill press, a prick punch, and a small drill.

    ETA: If you weld, you might weld a nut to it. . . it's small, but possible.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  15. skeeterfogger

    skeeterfogger member

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    Looks like one of those items that when inserted the circumference of the hole is punched to retain it. I have use a very sharp very pointed scribe to scrape the circumference while holding pressure against the pin to remove small amount of metal from the hole edge to free or even remove the pin. If it comes out it can be retrapped by gently punching the circumference.
     
  16. Johnm1

    Johnm1 Member

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    I took the slide to my gunsmith yesterday. Not sure how he's going to get it out.
     
  17. doubleh

    doubleh Member

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    I'm with Old Shooter. It's now stuck. If it spins when drilled it's become un-stuck. If it doesn't come out add Kroil and spin it some more. Eventually the spring should pop it out or you can bang it on a board until it emerges. I would guess rust is the culprit.

    Evidently you were posting while I was typing so I'll go away as it's now the gunsmith's problem.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  18. Johnm1

    Johnm1 Member

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    The reason I didn't try to drill it out is my drill press is not accurate enough to not wallow out the hole. And it was too small to do by hand. A man has got to know his limitations.
     
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  19. Johnm1

    Johnm1 Member

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    The pin is out. The wife is picking it up today. I still have to order the replacement spring and pin. But, I'm no worse off than I was with the pin stuck.
     
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  20. Johnm1

    Johnm1 Member

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    Well, so much for the wife picking it up yesterday. Had to pick it up today. Pin and spring was rusted solid and had to be drilled out and the hole honed to remove the rust. It came back with a new pin and spring. I only left the slide with him so I'll have to fit the pin for length myself.

    Overall a good experience.
     
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  21. Johnm1

    Johnm1 Member

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    The pin measures 0.090" in diameter and the length that was returned to me was 0.21" long. And there is a hole drilled all the way through the 0.21" length. I can see light through it. It must be nice to have such precise equipment.
     
  22. Johnm1

    Johnm1 Member

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    I was able to function test the repair and the H&R 32 Self Loader functioned well. I was not able to resolve the conflict between the two diagrams on how the firing pin guide rod was installed. I picked a way that worked and fitted a new rod/spring by putting the headed part into the breach block. Choosing this method the firing pin spring was supported for its entire length. Had I put the headed part into the firing pin, there would have been a short section that had no rod inside the spring or hole outside the spring and this could let the spring bend out of line and not allow the firing pin enough travel. In the end I believe the rusted pin/spring on the breach plate that allowed the breach plate to move was the real problem all the time. I hate it when I fix things that aren't broken.

    During the function test I wasn't trying to make it a complete accuracy test, but I wanted to see how well it shot at 11 yards (the shortest distance we have at our outdoor range). 7 shots rested at 11 yards gave me around a 6" circle. Disappointing but I bet my skill was a part of that. Oddly, I then put 7 shots at 11 yards free hand and the group was 5". Go figure?

    One of the selling points of this firearm (as well as the Colt 1903 and Remington 51) was that they were supposed to 'Point shoot' easily. So I tried the old 30/40's point shooting from the hip. Again, 11 yards, not fast but not super slow either. Surprisingly 5 out of the 7 shots were in the kill zone! Of course the other two would have killed innocents, so I don't expect I'll be using that tactic anytime soon. Though I bet someone could train to use it successfully.

    Nice firearm that goes well in the 'Art Deco' pocket pistol collection. H&R Self Loader in 32, H&R Self Loader in 25, Savage 1907 in 32, Savage 1907 in 380, Colt 1903 in 32, and Remington 51 in 380. All built between 1910 and 1922 (I think).
     
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