Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Retired WI Farmer Hitler Memorial

Discussion in 'Legal' started by zeke1312, Jun 15, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. zeke1312

    zeke1312 Guest

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2006
  2. Don Gwinn

    Don Gwinn Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    6,385
    Location:
    Virden, IL
    It would be helpful if you could find a link or, failing that, just describe what's going on for those of us who haven't heard about it.
     
  3. Arkie

    Arkie Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    595
    Location:
    Arkansas
  4. RNB65

    RNB65 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    4,056
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
  5. Brian Williams

    Brian Williams Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,846
    Location:
    Kampong Cham, Cambodia
    I will defend his right to say what he desires, I only ask that he speaks the truth, not what he believe is the truth, while we are living in the age of disproof, in other words there are living people who have seen and can attest to the fact that the Holocost went on, I know he is lying.

    I will defend his right to say what he feels but I will also speak up and show or point to truth.
     
  6. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,480
    Location:
    Outside The People's Republic of Boulder, CO
    Which is as it should be.

    If the guy wants to put a memorial to a drug addicted, insane tyrant, have at it. Just don't expect the rest of us to flock in worship of said tyrant.
     
  7. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,171
    He needs a concierge and some pigeons.:D

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  8. Azrael256

    Azrael256 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,135
    Location:
    Dallas
    This is the one time I disagree. Not because I find his message particularly repugnant, although I do. Not because I think nazi propaganda is especially evil, although I do. Not even because it's the insane ramblings of a crazy old man, which it is.

    The reason is which IDIOT let a Waffen SS goon into my country?!? If we were talking about an ordinary Wermacht man who served his country honorably, I might be inclined to cut him some slack. This guy and all his little goose stepping moron buddies were convicted of war crimes 60 years ago. How *exactly* he is worthy of living, much less on American soil is beyond my comprehension.
     
  9. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,171
    Azrael-- The Waffen SS, a branch of the military, had 950,000 members. It wasn't the Totenkopf SS, who guarded concentration camps, or any of the other small SS groups, which were much more intimately involved in war crimes.
     
  10. Jeff

    Jeff Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    720
    Location:
    Vermont
    Oh yeah, I know that farmer. He is the guy that every year brings in a potato that has "the likeness of Hitler or Nixon."
     
  11. RNB65

    RNB65 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    4,056
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    Probably the same goons that sentenced many SS soldiers to 25 years to life in prison then commuted their sentences and released them within a decade.
     
  12. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,438
    Location:
    Spring Hill, Florida
    I dont agree that he got in because of a mistake or incompetence. It was over 10 years after the war. There were several atomic bombs, the start of the cold war and (I think) Korea between "omg germans = evil" and that guy immigrating.

    Worries about him being some sort of nazi were probably pretty low on everyone's list of things to inquire about. They were probably more worried about him being a communist in 1955. And as a Nazi die-hard who fought in Russia, he was probably as anti-communist as they came back then.

    The israelis will probably break his kneecaps now. Assuming that this entire nazi officer thing isnt an episode of senile demntia.
     
  13. Azrael256

    Azrael256 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,135
    Location:
    Dallas
    The tribunal saw it differently, and so do I. If we were talking about some hapless Pole who was pressed into service, I would cut him some slack. What we're actually talking about, however, is a volunteer officer of an organization that was convicted of war crimes.
     
  14. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,438
    Location:
    Spring Hill, Florida
    And how do you propose they should have ferreted out the devoted junior officers from the ones who just went along for the ride? All of them probably said "oh ja, ve vere just following ordahs." So many people (Schwarzenegger's father, Pope Benedict!) joined the Nazi party back then that it would be impossible to interrogate them all to find out who the dedicated ones are.

    And it is not like he has been actively sabotaging the country or invading Poland. No one even knew who he was for the past 60 years, while he was presumably a productive member of society.

    Here is an interesting mental exercise for THR: Whom do you suppose is a bigger threat to our freedom- an old nazi from Wisconsin, or the old men in congress and the supreme court? As creepy and weird as I think this guy is, I am not really worried about him banning my guns or trying to eminent domain my house.
     
  15. RNB65

    RNB65 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    4,056
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    I agree with Azrael256. Former SS members should have been barred from any type of long-term entry into the U.S. unless they had some major league scientific or cultural skills to contribute. A Wisconsin potato farmer doesn't cut it. I'd a stamped a big "REJECTED" on his visa application and filed it in the circular file.
     
  16. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,171
    beerslurpy, despite your handle, you actually know **** from shinola, which is more than I can say for a few people here.

    Convicting all 950,000 men of war crimes was silly on its face back in the 1940s, and it's still silly. It would have made more sense to convict the entire country of Germany, except those involved in the Resistance.

    That said, obviously this guy loves Hitler. He's a wacko. But someone having once been part of a huge military organization when there were few good options doesn't mean much one way or another.

    And yes, there are people in my family who resisted. And my family was almost hauled to the camps, too. I'm Austrian by descent, with 1/8 Jewish blood. My father's family concealed their heritage to save their lives (they'd never been practicing Jews, or Catholics either for that matter).

    Sooner or later, though, you have to watch The Producers and Hogan's Heroes, laugh, and move on. Hitler's dead. He's been dead for 60 years.
     
  17. Azrael256

    Azrael256 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,135
    Location:
    Dallas
    I could not possibly care less. "Going along for the ride" doesn't fly, but even if it did, the man volunteered. And we're not talking about Ah-nold's dad flying a party flag, we're talking about a man who joined the SS.

    Why is it that we have no problem understanding guilt by association when it comes to mobsters hijacking semi trailers full of cigarettes, but when it comes to invading Poland, the waters somehow get murky.
     
  18. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,171
    That made about as much sense as the rantings of the kook in Wisconsin.:rolleyes:
     
  19. Byron Quick

    Byron Quick Moderator In Memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    6,482
    Location:
    Waynesboro, Georgia
    Azrael526,

    You are mistaken in your belief that all SS members were convicted of war crimes. There are entire SS divisions that nol only were never convicted of war crimes but were never even accused of war crimes.

    That's not to say that this man is not guilty. I have no idea what his status is.

    But trying to state that all SS were convicted war criminals or even accused war criminals is simply false to fact.

    Don't get me wrong, I have no sympathy for Nazis or their pathetic ideology. I do have sympathy for accurate history.

    There is no law or regulation that would prevent any person from becoming a US citizen based on guilt by association. If you thought there was...you were mistaken. __________________
     
  20. bouis

    bouis member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    369
    I'll give the guy one thing -- Americans are woefully ignorant of what really happened during the second World War.

    Can you imagine serving your country through what might be the most terrible war ever, only to go through sixty years of people thinking you were a butcher because of the color of the uniform you wore?
     
  21. Beetle Bailey

    Beetle Bailey Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,240
    Location:
    California
    I'd like to take this opportunity to suggest to everyone: If you have an opportunity to talk to anyone who was alive at the time, especially vets, please do so. But it doesn't have to be a vet. . . I had a classmate whose grandmother was a Ukrainian gypsy whom the Germans had captured.

    She would have been sent to a death camp but during the medical exam they measured the size and proportions of her skull and deemed her worthy of being used as slave labor in Germany. Yep, life or death based on the physical shape of your head. . . :scrutiny:

    There's also the Museum of Tolerance in Los Angeles, where they have artifacts from the concentration camps. On display are some of the instruments of torture, some of which I couldn't even fathom to guess how they operate.

    You don't fight Herr Junker by cutting off his free speech, you ask for his sources and get as many other accounts as you can.

    Hmmm. . . which shall I choose, overwhelming historical evidence, or what some guy pulled out of his. . .
     
  22. Azrael256

    Azrael256 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,135
    Location:
    Dallas
    No, it isn't. The tribunal judges decided that the SS, as a whole, was a criminal organization. They allowed a good deal of leeway for lower ranking men, particularly foreign conscripts, but this man doesn't exactly qualify for an exemption.
     
  23. Byron Quick

    Byron Quick Moderator In Memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    6,482
    Location:
    Waynesboro, Georgia
    At Nuremberg? At which trial?

    Ok,

    I've found where the tribunal held the SS and SD to be criminal organizations. What exactly did this mean for individual SS members not accused of specific crimes?
     
  24. LAK

    LAK Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,487
    ArmedBear
    Uh oh ... someone who knows some history - as opposed to indoctrination and popular notions.

    There are doubtless hundreds, maybe thousands of people in this country who have Adolf Hilter figurines, busts, paintings and flags of the Dritte Reich all over the insides of their homes.

    We have a far greater threat than any single Hitler admirer within this country. That is the people in this country who are selling us out and destroying our country right before our very eyes - and millions who actively support the idea - and their criminal organization known as the "United Nations". Since they started building their global plantation, the crimes that occurred as a result of the Nazis are but a fraction of the sum total.

    -------------------------------------------------

    http://ussliberty.org
    http://ssunitedstates.org
     
  25. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,213
    Location:
    FLORIDA
    Well, that's the price we pay for being Americans and establishing a free society. You get people who believe in some not-so-good things.


    We protect religious beliefs and free speech. Well, not really protect, we simply limit the government from infringing on these rights. Remember, the government is often the tool of the majority and is misused to impose one's will over another. We certainly don't want to set a precedent by jumping all over an ex-nazi. If he's doing it on private property, well goody for him. His waste of money and property.


    Bottom line, this guy or anyone else can say whatever they want - in the face of total concrete evidence that says otherwise, he will never convince everyone else (if that even is his intent) who is sane or not a racist/nazi. So let them be, paying attention to these types only promotes their madness.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page