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Returning to shotshell reloading...

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Poper, Jun 19, 2022.

  1. Poper

    Poper Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,709
    Location:
    Semi-Free State of Arizona
    I haven't bothered to reload shotshells since I left eastern South Dakota in 1997. Now I am considering taking on sporting clays with a 16 ga. O/U.
    Components are a little limited, and with primers being the weak link, I was still able to find a thousand Cheddite 209 primers for $70 - an apparent bargain these days. Therefore my query: Is a 209 primer a 209 primer regardless of manufacturer and can you substitute the Cheddite 209 for a Winchester 209 or Federal 209, etc?

    In years past I loaded 10 ga. & 12 ga. using Federal hulls and primers for 10 ga. and Winchester hulls and primers for 12 ga.
     
  2. kalielkslayer

    kalielkslayer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2021
    Messages:
    1,053
    If you’re asking if the Cheddite primers will work on those hulls instead of Win or Fed 209s, the answer is yes.

    I’m just getting back into shot shell reloading myself so I have studied 2 separate manuals extensively the last week.

    If you’re asking if you can exchange the Cheddite for the Win or Fed primer in a recipe, I would say to try to find a recipe using the Cheddite. My study of the manuals shows significant pressure differences just by exchanging primers.

    My challenge hasn’t been primers, but specific powders. I have plenty of HS6 and Longshot for my hunting loads but I’m struggling to find appropriate powder for standard 1 1/8 oz 12 ga loads trap loads.

    Ballistic Products had 5,000 Cheddite for $308 not too long ago. And they were in stock for over a week. I also got some from Brownells but I paid more than you did for those.
     
  3. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    4,387
    Location:
    virginia
    I'm preferentially using Cheddites for my 12ga/AAs
    Great primer -- especially since they are far more available.
     
  4. Saluki91

    Saluki91 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2021
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    Location:
    The Land of Tall Corn
    No - they aren't all the same, and are not freely interchangeable. For example, Federal 209 are pretty hot when compared to Winchester 209. The issue is pressure, which you won't see signs of like you would in center fire cartridges. Your first indication of trouble will be the scattered pieces of your shotgun (and possibly you). Follow published load data.

    That being said, substitutions are sometimes possible. You should contact powder manufacturers for guidance. In my experience, they are always willing to help. Ballistic Products is another source for safe substitutions. Their ballisticians have tested many loads independent of powder companies or load manuals.

    Below is some load data for Vectan D20 powder (published by Vectan) that I am currently using. Cheddite 209 (my primer of choice, as it is the only one I can reliably find) and other 209 primers are compared. Note the differences in powder charge and pressure for the same/similar velocity. You can use Hodgdon's data center to see other examples. As you can see, adding a hot primer to an already high pressure load (that was designed for a cooler primer) will ruin your day.

    Federal Gold Medal Hull Ched209 21.4 grains Federal12S0 1 oz. 8500psi 1250fps
    Federal Gold Medal Hull Fed209A 21.2 grains Federal 12S0 1 oz. 9200psi 1250fps

    Remington STS Hull Ched209 22.3 grains Remington FIG 8 1oz. 10800psi 1350fps
    Remington STS Hull Rem209 22.5 grains Remington FIG8 1oz. 9300psi 1300fps

    Winchester AA HS Hull Ched209 19.5 grains Remington RXP12 1oz. 9000psi 1225fps
    Winchester AA HS Hull Win209 19.7 grains Remington RXP12 1oz. 8500psi 1200fps
     
    kalielkslayer likes this.
  5. Akula69

    Akula69 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    349
    Location:
    The Armpit of this Country
    There are many factors that can determine the pressures you might encounter when switching components.

    Having said that, I have made multiple posts concerning the use of different primers in Federal Gold medal hulls, and the conclusion for me was it made little difference. I actually sent multiple samples to Tom Armbrust to have them tested in his pressure test rig to make sure they would be safe. I also spoke directly with the 'Curmudgeon' from Ballistic products directly, who assured me the primer substitution from Cheddite most others is fine (except the Federal 209A which is hotter than others).

    Barrel length, choke (or absence thereof), powder choice, wad can all make a difference. But - straight hulls with straight hull wads (or tapered hulls with tapered hull wads) and powder rated for the oz load you are shooting makes it easy.

    Do what you are comfortable with. I subbed Cheddite's into my recipes and had no problems. If you would like a copy of the test sheets showing the loads I sent to Tom, PM me.
     
  6. Cliff6

    Cliff6 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2020
    Messages:
    117
    Check Hodgdons online site for lots of loading data using cheddite primers. This information with cheddite primers was only added a couple weeks ago for those who haven't kept up.

    Cliff
     
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