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Revolting! Man in Seattle gets Swat team sent on him for having 3 handguns

Discussion in 'Legal' started by razorburn, Aug 17, 2006.

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  1. razorburn

    razorburn member

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    That's it. Seriously. I just saw this on fox news. Apparently, he got a swat team sicced on him for no reason, just for having guns! He committed no crime. He threatened nobody. He just went into his apartment and didn't want to come out! His father then called the police and told them his son was in his apartment with access to 3 (legal) handguns, and they sent a swat team armed with rifles, shut down several streets, yellow tape, a negotiator the whole works. They had a negotiator (negotiate what? Negotiate to unlock his door?), and in the end, charged him with nothing because he did nothing wrong. I'm trying to find further info on this right now, anybody else know anything? If all is as appears, this is one of the most ridiculous intrusions on a law abiding gun owner I've ever read of.

    I was in Seattle just earlier today with a handgun on my person :rolleyes:. Amazing I didn't get kicked to the ground and the army sent in on me.

    Edit-
    Link found, will look for 1 that was as detailed as the news report. http://www.kirotv.com/news/9691723/detail.html

    It gets me so incensed with their on-street interview. Matronly old women expressing shock and dismay on their face- "Its really shocking when you realize there's people with guns right in your neighborhood!" "It really hits you when you realize these things can happen right in your own town, I lived on the same floor with him!". My god, I had no idea how brainwashed some of my seattlelites are. It's appalling that anybody actually thinks like this. They're actually completely associating gun ownership=wrong and evil. They actually consider law abiding gun ownership to be like a crime on the scale of murder and rape!
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2006
  2. Eightball

    Eightball Member

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    Time to sue.:fire:
     
  3. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    And just what did the man's father tell the police he did? Do you know? I seriously doubt they would even get a meter maid dispatched to respond if the father just called 911 and said "My son owns three legal handguns, he's not a criminal and he just went home for the night and locked the door."

    Are you sure that the father didn't indicate something like his son was despondent and suicidal or had made threats to him or others in an argument?

    I think there might be a bit more to the story......

    Jeff
     
  4. razorburn

    razorburn member

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    The link to the brief kiro-7 report states that he argued with his father, then went into his apartment and refused to come out. His father phoned and reported that he had access to 3 hand guns in the apartment. This caused several streets to be shut down and a swat team dispatched to surround him.

    Fox news broadcast reported that he threatened nobody with the handguns, and did not brandish them or threaten others. He was simply in his apartment with the guns and refusing to leave. Apparently he was then negotiated into going down.

    I am going to try to find a more detailed report as fox news had broadcasted.
     
  5. Lupinus

    Lupinus Member

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    can we say overkill?
     
  6. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    its surprising

    what can come of a police report
    in va i got arrested and charged with contruction fraud based on a criminal complaint where i had not taken any money from the woman had no contract with her and my name is not antwhere in the criminal complaint. the wheels of justice did eventually set me free but even though the cops agreed something was wrong they were cuffing me. side note the best part of whole experience was how the sheriffs handled it.
     
  7. Powderman

    Powderman Member

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    OK, so the bash fest has started. But first, let's read the original post:

    1. He gets called in as a barricaded subject, who won't come out.

    If that's all you have going in, would you just waltz up to the door with an ice cream cone?

    2. A negotiator was called.

    So what's bad about that?

    3. He was talked into surrendering and released, as he had committed no crime.

    Can someone tell me what is bad about this? Anyone?
     
  8. MrZ

    MrZ Member

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    "And just what did the man's father tell the police he did? Do you know? I seriously doubt they would even get a meter maid dispatched to respond if the father just called 911 and said "My son owns three legal handguns, he's not a criminal and he just went home for the night and locked the door.""

    Agree.

    Whoa!!! Gotta run!!! There's a BLACK HELICOPTER flying around my house!!!!
     
  9. Metapotent

    Metapotent Member

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    I live in Seattle as well and I have had a funny experience...

    I live on the 13th floor (literally) in my apartment complex and one day I was cleaning one of my rifles with my window and blinds open and a kid in an adjacent apartment across the street was playing with his toy guns and was pointing them at me, thinking I had a toy gun as well. His mother walks up to him to see what he is doing and spots me with a rifle in my hand.

    She grabs her child by the hand and runs out of site of the window.

    I think nothing of it until I get a call from the front office saying the cops were there and wanted to speak to me.

    I take the elevator, reach the lobby to get handcuffed for "brandishing a weapons". I told the police I was simply expressing my 2nd amendment rights to own and CLEAN legally purchased weapons. Then I give permission to the police to check my apartment and there they found my rifle on a desk surrounded by cleaning products. They pressed no charges and I ended up showing the police my assortment of weapons that they were very impressed with.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. strambo

    strambo Member

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    We need the police report to know what they were told as a reason for him being "barricaded". If no crime was committed, no warrant and no crime he is suspected of...then it wouldn't be possible for him to be a barricaded subject, just some guy who doesn't feel like talking to his idiot father.

    I can believe you can call the police and say something vague like "I'm worried about my son, he's in the house and won't come out and he's got 3 guns...I don't know what he's gonna do." and get the response mentioned in the article even though no crime was alleged. The nanny-state is eager to protect you from yourself (maybe, if you are a threat to yourself...if not maybe they'll find some pot on the way in?)
     
  11. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    Metapotent:

    Is that your collection? I thought suppressors were illegal to put on a gun in WA? And are those airsoft MP5s?
     
  12. LAK

    LAK Member

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    Sheesh, I must be an "armed barricaded subject" everytime I shut the door for the night to turn in. If I "refuse to come out or open up" for someone in my family until I feel like it - is the local PD going to bring out the SQUASH team and negotiator?

    --------------------------------------------

    http://ussliberty.org
    http://ssunitedstates.org
     
  13. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    he had committed no crime.

    under what bizarre theory of the constitution does someone who is not committing a crime and is not a threat to anyone get attacked by a SWAT team because of the unsupported allegations of a single person?

    but I would be inclined to reserve judgment in some respects. this has the feel of someone coaching someone else just what to say to get this kind of response.
     
  14. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    Let's look at the other side to this:

    Father calls local PD, complains that son had an argument with him, locked himself in his house, won't come out, won't talk with anyone, and dad thinks that he might be suicidal. PD tells him "nothing we can do, he hasn't committed any crime", and tells dad to have a nice day. Son blows his brains out. Dad gets attorney, and sues the department for not doing anything.

    Looks like the police can't win, especially in this litigious society.
     
  15. Rich K

    Rich K Member

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    Some "fathers" are simply idiots, walking talking rectums. They get irritated when they can't control their family from cradle to grave. Mine used to get po'd when I wouldn't talk to him for 2 weeks. After his abuse of my mother sisters and me, why should I? Sorry for the rant.
     
  16. Erebus

    Erebus Member

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    How about sending 2 uniforms over to his house and knocking on the door?

    Officer Jones "Everything ok here sir? We got a call from your father that you wouldn't answer the door for him."

    Gunowner "Yep just mad at my Dad and don't want to talk to him."

    Run his ID just to be sure he's not wanted, can legally posess the weapons and leave him alone. If he can legally own the guns then whether or not he has any is none of the cops concern at that point. Unless he comes to the door with one in his hand.
     
  17. buzz_knox

    buzz_knox Member

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    Police depts say that very thing quite often, and get sued. They also get sued when they listen to assaults over the phone and do nothing, or sit outside while actual crimes are ongoing and do nothing. The result is the same: they win. It's been made very clear in this "litigious" society that the police have no responsibility towards individuals unless they have both led that person to believe they will protect them and deprive the individual of some other means of protection.
     
  18. progunner1957

    progunner1957 member

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    I'll add Seattle to my growing list of places I'll never live due to antigun bigotry. Maybe I'll even have to add Washington state, even though it is rated as "D+" by the antigun bigots at the Brady Campaign.
     
  19. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    Thats just not true. I don't recall any cases ever where police have successfully been sued over a legitimate judgment call. Even a case where they have refused to send officers to investigate a report of an attempted murder in progress. Once in a blue moon a case is won over civil rights infractions, but something like this - never.

    As liberty loving people, we ought to have a single standard by which we judge the actions of LE. That standard should be is it constitutional, and is it lawful.
     
  20. ceetee

    ceetee Member

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    How many tax dollars were spent? How many crimes went uninvestigated because of the over-use of police personnel, responding to a complaint that could've been handled over the phone?

    How much background information did the police obtain before calling out the troops?

    For all we know, the son has a history of making threats, or has been seeing a mental health specialist. He may have just gotten some bad news, and his dad may be a good guy that honestly cares about his son. We just don't know enough facts to judge correctly.

    If what we DO know is correct, though, I would be highly ticked off (were I a taxpayer there) of the total waste of funds. If I Were the son, I'd have a few choice words for my dad, too...
     
  21. Raptor5191

    Raptor5191 Member

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    Razorburn, SWAT does NOT hit houses for "no good reason" as a general rule. There is a REASON the police were called, and a REASON the patrol guys requested a call-up.

    I ask many of you one thing: Why is it ALWAYS the fault of the police department or sheriff's office when you aren't happy about stuff? How about the legislators? Why not do something about them? Get pissed off at them...it is normally much better directed.

    Think about it: Legislation LEGISLATES (makes law).

    Law Enforcement ENFORCES what the LEGISLATURE deems law.
     
  22. buzz_knox

    buzz_knox Member

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    The legislature doesn't control when SWAT is deployed in a particular circumstance. It only controls what is done in a broad stroke. Tactical decisions like these are and should be left to the department. That's why public pressure needs to be brought to bear to insure that such decisions are right and proper.
     
  23. Lupinus

    Lupinus Member

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    even if he was "barricaded" with guns what law is there agianst that? Unless he has a hostage or is reported to have a hostage or some such the police have no buisness bothering him. Last time I checked it was still legal to want people (even police when you aren't commiting a crime) to leave you the hell alone.

    I own guns, so if my Uncle comes knocking on my door while I am sleeping and I say screw it roll over and go back to sleep I can fully expect to wake up agian to my door being kicked in by a swat team because my Uncle calls to police and says I own guns and am not answering the door?

    If there were other circumstances, not showing up for work for a few days and no one on the face of the earth has heard from me and there is a funny smell of dead stuff coming from my house then they have a reason because it is no longer someone with guns that doesn't wanna come out it is a possible dead bloated rotting guy with guns. But not if the only thing the police have been told is "Man with guns has locked himself in his house and wont come out"
     
  24. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    The reason may or may not have been good at the time the decision was made. The only thing we know after the fact is that it looks like major overkill. It is hard to know what triggered such a strong response to something that turned out to be nothing.
    GOOD question. Why is it we let the politicians off the hook for these kind of things? Not just the legislature. I don't want the legislature micro-managing anything. But the mayor ought to be asking "what the heck were you people thinking?". It is his job to make sure city resources are used appropriately.

    One of the biggest problems we have with LE these days is that it has gotten way too independent. It is like a watchdog. It needs to be kept under strict civilian control or it can (and sometimes does) turn on innocents.
     
  25. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Years ago, I lived in a highrise apartment building. One day, the pipes behind my bedroom closet wall burst. The management company entered my apartment without my knowledge and fixed the leak. The closet happened to have a number of guns in it. They called the police. The police basically replied, "Yes, AND?" The cops later called and notified me. This was the same PD that I called several times on my domestic abuser upstairs neighbor. They eventually arrested him for assaulting a police officer. This is also the same department who, when the Metropark Rangers ignored my calls relayed by them, voluntarily walked a river bank with a friend and me to ensure that no crime had been committed.

    I suppose that once I left Chicago for good, I've been lucky enough to live in towns with reasonably honest and competent police departments.
     
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