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Revolver or Semi-Auto for EDC?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Texasgrillchef, Sep 27, 2019.

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  1. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    I really do not want this to be taken as argumentative, but how "comfortable" one may feel is a commodity of very little value.

    The only way to develop and to reasonably assess one's defensive skills is throug realistic defensive training---away from the square range, and not involving shooting at a target at which one had been planning and expecting to shoot. Looking at group size will not be helpful.

    Finding courses that allow the use of revolvers is getting hard to do because of the low demand. and most qualified instructors recommend against them anyway.

    I have a couple of friends who can use revolvers competently in realistic drills, but i have found that I cannot.

    My experience with revolvers goes back almost [edited] sixty years.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
  2. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    I sincerely suggest that you have little idea of actual usage and need to take courses from quality instructors. To even mention such a plan is evidence that such instruction is needed. With a revolver or semi, it's an impossible plan. As Kleanbore said, your abilities are not tested at the square range.

    Revolver instruction does exist - in TX, we've had several opportunities. Interestingly, the revolver courses are for higher level folks who are already quite competent with semis. I recently took Karl Rehn's Historic Handgun class which had components from the past using revolvers and modern tests with semis. Even though I'm a good revolver shooter - I can see the difference clearly. I marvel at the old guys who aced the old distance revolver standards from their old stances.

    One needs to get off the square range! Try USPSA or IDPA with a revolver. Try FOF with a revolver, see if you can hit the knees of a running target with anything but a flame thrower.

    We are trying to be instructive but if someone won't listen, nothing can be done. Can I be more clear?

    PS - I've had a few 'running' gun fights with a snubby and Code Eagle (paint round) in FOF. Also, close in contact ones. Hitting the person at all is a success. It's like 6D chess as the person moves in the XYZ coordinates of physical space and his or her body rotates and move around their own XYZ axes. You are moving with the same set of axes.

    Then you are out of rounds pretty fast.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
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  3. Styx

    Styx Member

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    Who are you telling? I could not agree more.
     
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  4. Styx

    Styx Member

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    Despite some of the disdain for revolvers in this thread, if you go over to other forums, you'll find plenty of people who do not feel the same way. On the defensivecarry, S&W, Ruger, etc forums, you'll find plenty of knowledgeable folks who have a completely different opinion than those shared here by a few members. Dare I say the consensus would be the complete opposite; however, you'll still have the one or two very determined semiauto guys who will call revolvers inferior. With that said, you're not the only one who carries a revolver.

    There are millions more who carry with similar capacity in single stack 380s-45 ACPs which, since it was stated that reloads aren't probable or necessary in a gun fight, they're basically in there same boat as the people who carry revolvers. Guess the G43, XDs, Kahrs MK9, Ruger LCP, 1911, Shield 45, etc carriers are all doing it wrong as well according to the logic and opinions in this thread.... Still using the same logic, all millions who only carry 5-7 rounds in their extremely popular, much more so that double stacks, single stack pistols are all doing it wrong too...

    My advice to you would be to carry what you want, you feel comfortable with, and what you train with, and take other's conflicting "opinions" and conjure with a grain of salt... In the gun community, no matter what brand, gun size, action (DA, SA, DA/SA, etc), capacity, ammo, caliber, method of carry, or style of firearm you carry, there's always going to be some very vocal "experts" on both sides who will have something to say about it. Listen to both sides, come to your own conclusions, and then do what's best for you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
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  5. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    The folks who carry lower capacity guns accept that they are one or two opponent guns and hope the limited capacity carries the day. That is their decision.

    The issue of unrealistic expectations of competence is another. I suggest that you don't come to your own conclusions if you are more than the casual user by reading Internet discussions. The various guns should be tested in more realistic conditions than the static square range at 7 yards. Listening to both sides does not equal empirical tests. Deciding what is best for you, will be driven by selective information processing for your already made up opinion. That is not a test. It is just a case of confirmation bias. If a poster says they are confident in their decision after discussing shooting for the knees, a knowledgeable person has to say that they do not have the background sufficient to make a quality decision. That's harsh but that's the way I see it.

    We know the vast majority of carriers have little to no realistic training. If that works for you, that is your decision. Accept that you make that decision with little information and stick to it, despite advice. Will it work most of the time, probably. The train for the extremes, the anomaly is not for you. Be honest enough to accept that.

    Was in the LGS the other day. A guy came in with his girl friend. They were interested in a new, first gun for her. I was impressed on how the store owner took them through the guns and promoted either a Glock 42 or Shield EZ 380. Good choices.
     
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  6. Styx

    Styx Member

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    We will have to agree to disagree. I think you're off the mark on some of your opinions and vis versa.
     
  7. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Sure. Unless they have performed well with them in realistic defensive training, and particularly in FoF training, I do not know why anyone should listen to them.

    From the standpoint of capacity, yes.

    That's one reaon why I don't carry a small semi-auto. There are others.

    If those wants and feelings are well founded in reality, and if "comfort" has to do with the ability to defend oneself in a terrible situation, I agree.

    I generally carry a single stack 8+1. One is much better prepared with nine than with six, and much better than with five.

    I realize that how much better off one might be with six than with five is probably not intuitively obvious to those who do not really understand the variables. Hint--the probability of prevailing is more than 20% higher.

    Capacity aside, I simply cannot achieve an acceptable balance of speed and precision with a double action revolver.

    I do know a few people who can.

    One, a former twenty year police veteran, has switched to a semi-auto.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
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  8. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    With which of GEMs comments do you disagree?

    Can you explain how and why?
     
  9. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    Having shot snubbies to full size revolvers and little semis to full sized semis in class, competition, FOF and matches for about 25 years, I can only offer my opinion from experience and interactions with well respected national trainers. Of course, appeals to authority are just that. That's why I suggest the empirical test. Trained as a scientist, I go for the empirical test after studying the literature.

    In the TX environment, there is a wonderful array of all those opportunities. That might vary in some states. I can shoot the DA revolver pretty well in IDPA but not as good as a Glock 17. I find a Glock 42 easier to shoot than SW 642 which I shoot decently. I won't really disarmed with a revolver but I put in the time.
     
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  10. Styx

    Styx Member

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    You chopped up my sentence and left everything that came before and after out. What I stated was to listen to both sides, train with what she/he has (which was both a semiauto and revolver), AND carry what she/he is comfortable with and feels is best. If my post is read in it's entirely, the the "feeling" and "comfort" part is convenient on getting their own experiences and coming to their own conclusions and not the conclusions others think they should come to (which will very depending on the person, forum, etc).

    There are L.E., former military, and plenty of others who say that although they carry larger capacity on duty, they carry revolvers or single stacks off duty.. Matter of fact, I believe one member stated as much in this very thread. In any event, I've come across many knowledgeable gun owners in the community that would strongly disagree with some of the views and opinions you stated... Of course you believe you're right just as they will.
     
  11. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    The knowledgeable folks (of whom I am well acquainted) acknowledge that the smaller guns have limitations and they accept them. They do not deny the limitations. They play the odds against being the extreme. All I ask is that:

    1. One acknowledges that
    2. One reaches their conclusion about their ability after realistic training and testing
    3. Realize that comfortable and feels best is not a useful metric. Performance is a useful metric

    What defines knowledgeable about handgun usage is another debate. Handgun training in the services is not intensive. Nor is most LE training. The Federal, state and local law that I hang out with (and are trained above just the Academy) with prefer to carry a larger semi. When they pocket carry a smaller gun, they acknowledge it is a comfort or dress compromise.

    They don't shoot for the knees with a knife carver coming inbound.
     
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  12. Styx

    Styx Member

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    I agree with just about everything you stated. Me bring up what L.E. and military members carry when they're off duty was in response to someone else bring it up.
     
  13. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    Glad we can all get along. Just trying to help folks who decide to carry an instrument of lethal force, and perhaps use it in life or death decisions.
     
  14. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    Haven't

    How many times have you actually had to defend yourself in the real world?

    Or should we just get out the tape measure and measure them?
     
  15. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    Do you wear your seatbelt based on the same criteria?

    Which is why you should carry every day whether you feel like it or not.
     
  16. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    Or not.
     
  17. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    You'll also find guys who advocate killing anyone who walks through their front door and who think open carry deters the bad guys and who think carrying your concealed carry weapon on your service dog is a good idea
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
  18. Thibaut

    Thibaut Member

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    Thank you. I will. Much of the stuff I read here reminds me of a bunch of officious plovers pattering at the edge of the marsh near my home. While I learn to be proficient and efficient with my guns, I will be cheerfully optimistic that I likely won't have lightning strike twice and need either. I'm beginning to feel that I am at a Thanksgiving table with some difficult relatives that wouldn't recognize tongue-in-cheek if it slapped them on the ass.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
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  19. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    If you'll allow this Plover to Plove one more time most of the folks who's advice you distain have actually had lightning strike them multiple times.
     
  20. Thibaut

    Thibaut Member

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    I would never accuse expansive enthusiasm of being criticism but when it becomes repetitive and lengthy; it makes a girl wonder.

    Per the OP intent: I will edc my revolver or my semi auto depending on my outfit and my circumstance and whether or not I feel like carrying that particular day or night.

    This will be my final post on this thread. Thanks to some of you for your advice and encouragement. Je me souviens.
     
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  21. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    "EDC" means "Every Day Carry."

    Go ahead, try shootin' 'em in the knee.
     
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  22. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I've practiced and trained with what fits me personally that I can reliably make stopping hits with from a stationary, moving, and realistic FoF training standpoint. I do not switch carry formats...ever. To me the challenge is to find the defensive handgun type that points like the full size, has the same manual of arms and ergos and stick with that so you're never caught trying to run type A like type B under stress. I have a few revolvers, but they just don't fit the way a 1911 does and they just don't point naturally like a 1911 does. My wife is a natural with a CZ. My daughter is a natural with a Glock. I don't want them to run what I run well. I want them to run what they run well. As I want anyone to run what they run well.

    You never know what you'll actually do in stress training and I've seen people make all the weird range mistakes in FoF that everyone scoffs that they'd never do...and then do them. Then we work on breaking those fatal habits through further practice/training/practice/training. The more realistic training you do - the more likely your response will be realistic in a crisis.
     
  23. TikkaShooter

    TikkaShooter Member

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    All I can add, it is different when it is real; if that makes sense.
     
  24. Styx

    Styx Member

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    That's basically the same thing I'm saying. You came to the conclusion that the 1911 is what you shoot best,i what you're comfortable with, and is what fits you personally yet there are many who will fault you for it because of the capacity and the fact that you can carry a polymer handgun of the same weight with a higher round count.
     
  25. Styx

    Styx Member

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    You're two steps ahead of most Americans especially women, who do not carry at all. Most people in America who aren't living a high risk lifestyle go their entire lives unarmed and never needing a firearm. IMHO, you will be just fine with your current choices despite what others might think.

    The women in my life either hate guns, like guns but refuse to carry, do not own any firearms, have their carry license, but only carry in their vehicles and leave their firearms at home a majority of the time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
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