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Revolver or Semi-Auto for EDC?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Texasgrillchef, Sep 27, 2019.

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  1. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    A "modicum of personal space" won't cut it.

    I do not know anyone who can run backward quickly enough.

    Irrelevant.

    An attacker can be expected to close the distance in about a second and a half. A shot or two is unlikely to stop him in his tracks.

    Five to ten seconds is far, far too long.
     
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  2. Pudge

    Pudge Member

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    So, you've got a second and a half to go from concealed to delivering rounds on a moving target. How many rounds do you get on target in 1.5 seconds from concealment? If that isn't enough to garuntee a stop of the attack, you're in contact with the assailant(s). Which is a scenario that has advantages for a revolver.
     
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  3. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Might I respectfully suggest that you avail yourself of some good, realistic defensive training, and then make your assessment.

    I have.

    I came to a different conclusion.
     
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  4. Jim Rau

    Jim Rau Member

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    Until it goes 'CLICK' not 'BANG'! Or when the 'new' shooter put the bullets in backwards, or don't pull the slide back far enough.;) If all you do is train to ' just pull the trigger' I feel sorry for you.:( Just 50+ years of experience speaking here. How much revolver training have you had???:)
     
  5. Pudge

    Pudge Member

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    You're obviously more knowledgeable about this subject, you could elaborate, as I'm genuinely interested in your conclusions. I suspect our realities are very different, and likely we will come to different conclusions about what is personally appropriate for our situations. However situations do not remain static, and disagreeing today doesn't mean you can't teach something that would be applied tomorrow
     
  6. murf

    murf Member

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    I really don't care how you feel.
    good, I hope
    the revolver or the autoloader?
    I said "dry practice". do you know what that is?
    practice is much more important.

    suggest you help the op instead of berate me with personal attacks. this is the high road. we try to help people here, so get with the program and quit grandstanding.

    murf
     
  7. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    I have some knowledge and have had some very good training. I will elaborate.

    My "realities" are as follows:
    • I live in a good neighborhood, but it is readily accessible to anyone with wheels.
    • I avoid stupid people and stupid places.
    • I rarely leave home at night.
    • I have to refuel the car, go to a pharmacy and an ATM, and go to a store or two. I rely on home delivery services for as many things as I can.
    • I carry a cane, which slows me down, but which can serve to deter and which can be used to deliver deadly or non-deadly force depending on how it is used.
    • Medical conditions make it essential for me to avoid blows or cuts.
    Based on the first four those things, I consider it extremely unlikely that I will be attacked by violent criminals. But it could happen, and considering the stakes, I like the idea of being able to defend myself as will as possible.

    Training and knowledge from other sources have led me to the following conclusions:
    • Should an attack occur, it will come as a most unpleasant surprise, at very close range, with very little warning. I practice "situational awareness" as well as anyone else, but I would not put very much reliance on it.
    • The attackers (one, perhaps, but more likely two) will waste no time posing for me as stationary on targets.
    • The realities of handgun wounding effectiveness make it likely that several shots on target will be required to effect a physical stop.
    • Those shots will have to be fired very quickly indeed, at moving targets.
    At one time, I had a lightweight five shot double action revolver with a CT grip. Firing slowly, with two hands, I could hit with it. But I could not use it effectively at all in defensive training drills, where fast shooting, perhaps four shots in a second and a half, with reasonable precision, is called for. And I came to regard the ammunition capacity as very inadequate indeed.

    The training to which I refer was nothing like shooting at the square range. The student walked along, and was told without warning to quickly identify and engage a particular one of several very similar targets that had been set up in different places around a U-shaped range.

    The student identified the target, turned to face it, drew while moving off-line, and fired three to five shots into an area equivalent to that of an upper chest, very quickly.

    The distances varied, but they were were short. Nothing at all like the seven yard ranges at which one often sees people practicing.

    I gained sufficient proficiency to do those drills successfully with a semi-auto with a reasonable trigger pull. With the short DA revolver, it was a non-starter--for me.

    BUT: the tool is not what is important. What is important is the ability to use it effectively under realistic circumstances.

    I am under no illusion that what I know and what I can do will give me the upper hand in the event of a vilient attack. I hope it never happens.

    If you want to know more, I suggest reading a couple of Rob Pincus' books, and if at all possible, attending one of their training sessions.

    One other thing: the drills train one to be able to react in realistic situations. But they are not entirely realistic. For one thing, the targets are stationary--they are not charging. For another, the student is not provided with an automobile or fuel pump to step behind, or a shopping cart to shove at the assailant.

    The best training is force on force training with simunitions, but one will not be allowed to participate in it without having first completed a number of extensive training regimens. I have friends who do it.

    One will not find me doing it. Arthritis, a bad knee, and neuropathy of the feet keep me on smooth level ground ,and prevent me from moving quickly these days.

    i hope you find this helpful.
     
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  8. Pudge

    Pudge Member

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    Very, thank you for taking the time to write that up.
     
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  9. Jim Rau

    Jim Rau Member

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    No personal attack from me. Only questioning your response as to your experience and training you based your post on. Have a nice day, and don't have such a thin skin!;)
     
  10. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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  11. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    This sounds like a very good argument for training. Alternatively, you can hope 5 rounds will stop 2 guys
     
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  12. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    Semi auto. After I converted my big revolvers to all single actions (I like shooting them better) I've lost my ability to shoot the long DA trigger well enough for my standards.

    I don't care for my little revolvers enough to spend the time relearning.

    Plus I prefer a belt gun, IWB, over a pocket carry for a number of reasons.

    Then there's the whole more ammo and faster reload for a similar size (also lighter) factors.
     
  13. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    I mean the initial remedial action for every malfunction on a Semiautomatic is Tap, Rack, ASSESS bang. Is that really that hard to learn.
     
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  14. Styx

    Styx Member

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    Yes since the whole "charging at you" scenario was used when it's convenient to do so, let's apply it to this context...
     
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  15. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    You know I've actually had run-ins with people where I had to use my gun to defend myself and I have yet to have anybody charge at me.

    Having said that, I mean I'm not sure what to tell you things don't always go your way. If I get one shot off and I have a malfunction and I can't get it cleared before you get to me I'll beat you over the head with the gun.

    That's why we learn more skills than just shooting.

    I've said this before and I'm sorry I mean no disrespect but you really strike me as one of those people that carries a gun like a good luck charm.

    You want to have it but you don't want to put any effort into it.

    My mindset is different because I've had some run-ins with some pretty shady people I've been a couple of folks out there who honest-to-god make me believe in vampires.

    As a result I take armed self-defense very seriously
     
  16. Styx

    Styx Member

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    Take up the "charging" situation with Kleanbore if you take issue with it. You inadvertently made my point. That that the fact that revolvers do not have to be tap, racked, and is much less likely to have malfunction leaving you with a club is a plus for those who don't train and just revolvers in general..

    We had this discussion several times before....
     
  17. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    And you keep saying things that reinforce my belief I'm sorry
     
  18. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    I bought my Glock 19 in June 2016. I have taken it to multiple training sessions and it is almost the only gun I take to the range.

    With the exception of a stove pipe my wife got with a Magpul magazine that I was unable to reproduce the only malfunctions I've ever had with it were intentionally induced during training.
     
  19. Styx

    Styx Member

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    Not even sure how me asking about applying Kleanbore's "being charged" senario to revolvers vs semis caused you to go on another rant about me not wanting to put any effort, me carrying a gun as a good luck charm, etc.

    That's just you and that particular gun. Does not negate the fact that semoautos, Glocks included, are more prone to malfunctions. The point I was simply trying to make is that there are pros and cons to each, and there are self defense situations/scenarios that can be conjured up where one is more suited than the other especially for new shooters or those who don't train for whatever reason.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
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  20. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    I'm about to push another one of your buttons but the onlay gun that I've really noticed malfunctioning was a Taurus Millenium Pro.
     
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  21. Styx

    Styx Member

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    I believe you.
     
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  22. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    Actually I thought about that while I was on my way to work tonight

    I saw a guy today with I think a Springfield 1911 that had some kind of jam but I didn't get close enough to get a good look at it I thought it it actually looked like there was an empty shell casing jammed in the magazine.

    The guy that I bought my 4006 from said that he had occasional failures to extract with it but the very first thing I did when I bought it was soaked the slide overnight in Hoppes and I haven't had no problem since.

    I did have one feeding issue with a magazine that I was using it at once.

    The firing pin spring on my 6906 broke and obviously a top rack bang wasn't going to fix that.

    I think my CZ75b actually malfunctioned once in the 10 years that I had it. And so did my RIA.

    My M&P Shield never malfunctioned the entire time I had it. My M&P 9C never malfunctioned the entire time I had it. My M&P9 has never malfunctioned and neither of my Glocks has either.
     
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  23. mcb

    mcb Member

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    I'd you have never had a malfunction on either action type you have not shoot enough or are being dishonest. I have had both revolvers and semiautos malfunction, wear out parts and break parts rendering them non-functional. They are a mechanical system that can and will fail.

    That said the reliability of good name brand semiautos and revolvers is so high as to render reliability a secondary selection criteria at best. When I reach in the gun cabinet for a gun for an application reliability is not on my mind all my guns are reliable or I would not own them.
     
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  24. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

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    I suspect holster options are rather limited.
     
  25. Jim Rau

    Jim Rau Member

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    Not really, but when you compare it to the immediate action drill for a DA revolver that goes 'click', which is simply to just pull the trigger again, and the DA revolver does not require two hands and and A LOT more time to get it back in the fight that the SA does, the learning curve is AT LEAST 4 TO 5 TIMES THAT OF THE REVOLVER. Like I said, just common sense.:)
     
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