Quantcast

Rhino hunting

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by jmr40, May 19, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    11,629
    Location:
    Georgia
  2. OilyPablo

    OilyPablo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Messages:
    3,102
    Location:
    WA State (NOT in Seattle)
    I saw that article, thanks for posting.

    It's "never". NEVER agree. Therein lay the problem.
     
  3. dwh4784

    dwh4784 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    I liked the quote about the anti's opposing this sort of thing because that's how they make their money. The logic of this hunt on so many levels is easy to see, this was a really good article.
     
  4. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    11,629
    Location:
    Georgia
    Be sure to read the text as well as watch the video. The text is a bit more detailed. Both provide supplemental information rather than just repeating what the other said.

    I was especially pleased with the positive light they were able to place the hunter in. Not something we always see from mainstream media.

    One criticism of "trophy" hunters is that they will kill the largest and best from a herd. In this case they were careful to point out that there were only 5 specific animals that he had permission to kill. These were the oldest animals and those who were no longer breeding, but were attacking and killing younger rhinos in territorial disputes. Basically animals that were near the end of their lives anyway. This added a level of difficulty just to ensure they didn't take the wrong animal.
     
  5. ironworkerwill

    ironworkerwill Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,857
    Location:
    AUabama- WE FEAR NO WEEVIL
    I have a feeling that despite all scientific logic, no one will be swayed. It's frustrating. Your sig line sums it up.
     
  6. Flynt

    Flynt Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2003
    Messages:
    485
    Location:
    Dallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex
  7. Plinkin' Logs

    Plinkin' Logs Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    Messages:
    103
    Location:
    You didn't see anything
    Hunting and conservation can definitely coexist. Ask a certain man named Theodore Roosevelt, one the the greatest conservationist of in American history, and...an avid hunter. In regards to the rhino hunt...not really sure what I think about it.

    P.S. was that a .600 nitro express he was shooting?
     
  8. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    9,876
    .500 Nitro.
     
  9. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    45,435
    Location:
    Terlingua, TX; Thomasville,GA
    350 Gees to shoot an animal that's past its prime and is no longer breeding, but is harassing able-bodied younger males? What's not to like?

    I doubt that "Photo Safaris, LLC" will donate that kind of money into any conservation/protection fund. Nor IFAW or PETA.
     
  10. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    9,876
    This is an absolutely undeniable win for rhino/wildlife conservation. As is all properly managed sport hunting. As the hunter stated NOBODY placed as much value on that rhino, an old non breeding bull that has been seen killing breeding age bulls, as did he.

    Having hunted Africa multiple times I can assure you that the care and concern that went into hunting that rhino is the same care and concern we've used every time we are hunting just about any species. We are always carefully looking for the old unproductive bull or a cull animal. I've passed up hundreds of buffalo in week or two before shooting the old warrior I was looking for.

    It is amazing to me when I hear the anti hunter/ animals rights people make statements like "shooting a rhino is like hunting your couch." These people are so ignorant of the facts that they actually equate looking at an animal in a zoo to what that animal is like when it is wild in it's natural habitat. They are completely and blissfully clueless.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2015
  11. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    9,876
    Example of pure unadulterated ignornace from the anti hunting crowd.

    https://www.change.org/p/delta...tm_medium=facebook&u

    Last year, more than a thousand rhinos were poached in South Africa, elephant populations have plummeted 66% in just five years, and the export of lion "trophies" has increased ten-fold--hunters bringing home animals' heads and bodies to stuff and mount. In response to such threats, South African Airways has declared an immediate, worldwide ban on transporting any hunting trophies made from rhinos, lions, elephants, and tigers. Now I need your support to ask Delta Air Lines to match this policy and refuse to transport exotic animal hunting trophies!

    Folks,

    Anytime you read about tiger hunting in Africa you immediately know that your dealing with blatant ignorance. THERE ARE NO TIGERS in Africa! Yet I see it proudly and loudly mentioned from the anti crowd all the time. Same as somebody who mentions "water buffalo" in Africa. There ain't no such thing. Tigers and water buffalo are Asian animals.
     
  12. kudu
    • Contributing Member

    kudu Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2003
    Messages:
    3,664
    Location:
    north central indiana
    I hunted in S. Africa in 1995, one ranch that I hunted had a few Rhino that they let people hunt, with a tranquilizer gun. I think the going rate at that time was $10,000 to shoot the rhino and have your picture taken with it before it woke up, and then get a imitation head mount made for your wall, the taxidermy was extra. I guess it was a decent money making concern.
     
  13. jack44

    jack44 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2011
    Messages:
    669
    Location:
    North Woods - Wisconsin
    350,000 that's a lot of money!
     
  14. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    9,876
    The guy who paid it obviously had the money and thought it was a worthy cause..
     
  15. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    5,365
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    I'll be the voice of dissent in this dialogue.

    I am a carnivore and eat meat. This is not an attack on hunters, farmers, etc. who raise and butcher livestock or hunt for sustenance, or kill legitimate predators or varnmints threatening their livestock. No issues with this behavior.

    I'm smart enough to understand the concept of $, economics of these deals, etc. which theoretically may save a species. Or it may not. Everyone wants to insert "logic" into this... okay... well let's insert logic into this.

    I don't understand is the DESIRE or LOGIC to shoot and kill a trophy, particularly one on the brink of extinction (DUE TO HUMANS and our misguided ways). Prematurely ending the life of a creature for pleasure is an illogical and deplorable act and one that I personally would not only feel NOT proud of, but particularly ashamed. It's little different than dog fighting, cock fighting, and torturing animals for pleasure. I can see no logical difference. You are creating suffering and death for your own pleasure.

    "Yay, look at me. I shot and killed one of the last of a species." That is illogical and cruel.

    Why not, instead, Mr. Moneybags, just DONATE the money to this cause allegedly wanting to support? And buy the life of the creature and not kill it, but let it live out its days.

    I've heard the arguments that being shot is more humane than living out it's natural death. Baloney. By analogy, we recognize as humans that ending a human life, even prematurely by 1 second, is murder. I'm not saying these animals are humans. I am saying that the concept of ending LIFE (any life) prematurely should be taken quite seriously. And for anyone thinking being shot today is more human than living many more weeks or months or years is a good way to go... I'd suggest that being shot would be a horrible way to die. Extremely painful and frightening.

    That's the difference between selfless conservation and selfish "conservation." Selfless conservation is donating the money to the cause without anything in return. Selfish "conservation" is a trophy kill and a prize photo...

    Seems hunters only want to save them so they can hunt them - which is particularly ironic. Would hunters want them saved if they could never hunt them? That is the true test of the altruistic desire to save them. Therein lies the total selfishness of the "conservation." I want them saved IN SPITE OF never wanting to harm a single one of them. And if I had the resources, I would dump money at the problem without wanting the head of one mounted on my wall...
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2015
  16. ElevenBravo

    ElevenBravo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2013
    Messages:
    70
    The older bulls are a threat to the survival of the species as 1) they are no longer reproducing, and 2) are attacking and killing the younger, more viable bulls. 3) the hunt permit allows for hunting of 5 designated rhinos that are eligible for culling, not a specific rhino.

    This is really no different from a management kill on a deer or elk herd, but somehow people are all up in their bunnyhugger arms over a rhino. If you bothered to read the CNN story, one of the eligible rhinos actually died of natural causes during the hunt. The government gets a sizable amount of money to go towards protecting the herd from poachers, the villagers get a lot of meat, and survival of the species is ensured slightly. Where is the downside?

    Consider this: that the rhino population grown 7% annually under the current management scheme, so at least give some credit where credit is due.
     
  17. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    9,876
    This was written by a man who has been on the ground and seen the realities of what is going on in rhino country. Myself.

    H&Hhunter.
     
  18. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Messages:
    662
    Location:
    Czech Republic, EU
    Well trusting the local authorities that they properly checked the 18 bulls and are absolutely sure that these are no longer able to effectively reproduce seems like quite a long shot.

    But what struck me the most is that this Rhino still has his horns. If they are serious about conservation efforts they should have removed them long time ago, thus taking away the incentive for poachers to kill the animal. Not to mention its ability to kill other rhinos.

    Meet Sudan, the last male Northern White Rhino, that was sent from a Czech ZOO to Africa in 2009 to help his mating habits.

    150416122731-02-sudan-white-rhino-0416-exlarge-169.jpg

    White-Rhino-Extinct-Soon-Last-Remaining-Male-Named-Sudan-Is-Guarded-247-By-Armed-Rangers-665x385.jpg

    3215301_1429076393.9611_updates.jpg

    Now, gentlemen, this being the last male of its species, and considering that he seems to be interested in mating as little in Africa as he was in the Czech Republic, would you also support its shooting for conservation purposes? I understand that it is different with the OP's case where there are 2.000 black rhinos, but where is the line?

    On the horns: if anyone is interested, here is quite a large pile of horns being burned in the Czech Republic. Most were seized from smugglers, some were taken of ZOO rhinos. (In order to keep it on topic, please note the guns of the Czech ATF SWAT team - most have old Scorpions and if I am not mistaken, by now they have mostly select-fire AR-15s in 9mm manufactured by Proarms). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t2TsMGSPIA
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2015
  19. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    9,876
    Did you just seriously ask if anyone would be interested in shooting the last northern rhino for conservation purposes? REALLY? I guess you completely and totally misunderstand how proper management through hunting works. The information is out there is are interested in learning about it.

    (Hint.... A good primer exists right above your post):rolleyes:
     
  20. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Messages:
    662
    Location:
    Czech Republic, EU
    No, the question was about where is the line between the 2.000 and 1. (Actually it is 1 male + 9 females alive now, so if the ratio is about the same, than it might be 200 v 1 )

    The issue on 1 was to kick it off.
     
  21. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    9,876
    That is for wildlife biologist/game manager to decide. Obviously in the article mentioned above there was a very good reason to remove a non breeding age bull that was causing harm to breeding age bulls.

    If there is ONE animal left just as obviously it should not be hunted. There is no sound biological management reason to do so. Your question is without logic or reason and I find it to be thoughtless. What is the point of even asking such a ridiculous question?
     
  22. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    45,435
    Location:
    Terlingua, TX; Thomasville,GA
    Looks to me that somebody's willing to cough up $350,000 to kill an animal which if left to live out a few more years would only feed the buzzards and forego money for the game wardens' budget, there's a helluva net benefit.

    And with some of that moolah going to the local villagers, there's a vested interest in protecting the species as a whole. Game wardens are commonly ineffective if the local folks aren't on their side.

    My own opinion in all this sort of argument is that if a pattern of action aids the species as a whole, the fate of some specific critter is not all that important.
     
  23. Andrew Leigh

    Andrew Leigh Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,036
    Location:
    Johannesburg S.A.
    Yip, they call it counter intuitive. It sounds like the wrong thing to do when in fact it is the best solution. However counter intuition requires understanding of both side of the coin and then being able to make a considered judgement call, in the best interests of the situation (species in this case).

    Looking at Sudan in the pictures above is rather distressing for me. A bunny hugger may find great joy in this scene but being from Africa that is not a Rhino to me. No horns, domesticated and unable to protect himself should a female get cheeky. Who is paying for the 4 full time guards? The reality is simply that conservation costs money, managed hunting provides the income to sustain a species. Southern Africa is filled with game farms that breed animals for consumption in hunting without touching the resources that are on public land. I am still flabbergasted that people still do not understand, what is actually a very simple concept, farmers have been using it for millennia.

    Would removing the horns really solve the problem? What is next, dental treatment for Elephants to remove their tusks?
     
  24. Lord Teapot

    Lord Teapot Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2010
    Messages:
    663
    Location:
    Tampa
    your entire post is irrelevant because the rhino in question was past breeding age. killing it in no way contributed to the extinction of the species, in-fact killing it helped the species, because this non-breeding rhino was murdering breeding rhinos.
     
  25. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    17,216
    Location:
    West Tennessee
    What was most deplorable about this entire thing, is that in all the hooplah about killing rhinos (when the story first broke), no mention was made of the actual circumstances of this particular situation. None. You had to research for yourself to find that the rhino in question was beyond breeding age and was harassing others, preventing them from breeding. Then you have misguided nonsense like this from our side, obviously posted by someone who didn't bother to read up on the details either :rolleyes: :

    "I don't understand is the DESIRE or LOGIC to shoot and kill a trophy, particularly one on the brink of extinction (DUE TO HUMANS and our misguided ways). Prematurely ending the life of a creature for pleasure is an illogical and deplorable act and one that I personally would not only feel NOT proud of, but particularly ashamed. It's little different than dog fighting, cock fighting, and torturing animals for pleasure. I can see no logical difference. You are creating suffering and death for your own pleasure."
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice