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Rifles sharing ammo?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Obturation, Sep 28, 2019.

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  1. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    Hey all,
    I have a novice question. I've been handloading about three and a half years and i'm very comfortable loading straight walled cases , no concern with that at all. I have loaded for my marlin 336 (30-30), but not extensively - about 50 rounds or so, mostly as load development and that has gone well.

    Last winter i got a deal i couldn't pass up on a winchester 94 basically new in box with a few hundred factory rounds very cheap.
    My question is, how to properly size my brass so that both rifles can use the same ammo without over working it / should i just full length size all 30-30 brass or how can i determine which has the shorter chamber and would that be the correct way to ensure function if i dont want to keep ammo seperated specifically for each rifle. i try to size the minimal amount required , cartridges i've produced for the 336 chamber and cycle fine in the 94 but i have not loaded any brass fired from the 94 and tried to load it in the 336 but do have some fired cases from the winchester and i'm ready to get to work on them just want to do it properly without over working the brass needlessly and pushing the shoulder back further than i need to. I have a feeling that i'm over thinking this, but i figured i bounce it off you guys so i can stop spinning my gears on it.
    Thanks!
     
  2. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    I own 4 rifles chambered in 308. The Tikka CTR has proven to have the tightest chamber and I size my brass to fit that rifles chamber. If it fits the Tikka, it fits the other 3 without issue. When I first bought the Tikka ( it is the newest of the 4) all of my previously loaded rounds would chamber and fire, but some were a bit tight when closing the bolt. I set those rounds aside and used them in the other 3. But since I've started sizing all of my brass for that rifle I've had no issues. The other 3 haven't lost any accuracy.

    If you were trying to squeeze the last .01 MOA out of your rifles then keeping the brass separate might be a good idea. But I wouldn't worry about this with 30-30
     
  3. Hooda Thunkit

    Hooda Thunkit Member

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    Just take a fired brass from Rifle A, see if it will chamber in Rifle B.
    Then do the same with fired brass from B to A.

    Use fired, unsized brass. If fired brass from both fit in the other, you are good to go. Neck size only, for brass life.

    If fired brass from A fits in B, but fired brass from B will not fit in A, it tells you to size everything fit A.
    The reverse is also true.
     
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  4. Bandit67

    Bandit67 Member

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    Since the .30-30 headspaces on the rim, I just FL resize. Mine is used for hunting so function is first and foremost. I just inspect the brass very closely as usual. I don't think you will gain anything by partial sizing except maybe brass life if that's important to you. I know others do it differently but it works for me. I would just FL size and use it in both rifles.
     
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  5. rdnktrkr

    rdnktrkr Member

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    I load for 7 different 30-06s and 2 are loaded with the same powder charge and length, I shoulder size 2 times then full length size and anneal and brass hasn't been a problem, I am working up a new load with new bullets currently and am hoping to have more that like the same load. I use some lube with alcohol and lanolin and spray it into gallon bag with the brass for a lube. The difference in loads were about 1 inch so I think it is worth it and sometimes you can find a lower power load that is accurate for recoil sensitive people.
     
  6. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    Jmr40- great advice, i think what ill do is just neck size and load a couple cartridges with brass from the winchester and if they chamber fine in the marlin i'll just run with that because i already know the cases fired from the marlin chamber in the winchester. If it does not fit in the 336 i can set those aside and use them in it, make a few more with the shoulder set back a bit and try it.
    Great, i don't know why i had only thought half way through that (didn't think to try the winchester fired brass in the marlin).
    Is the shoulder much of a factor if it headspaces on the rim?
    I do want to get as much life out of the brass i have, i shoot either of these rifles fairly regularly.

    Sorry, i feel like this is not a great thread i've started here. I was over thinking. Thanks guys, i'll make a few up this evening and then i'll know. Duh:thumbup:.
     
  7. Random 8

    Random 8 Member

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    You will significantly improve case life by moving headspace to the shoulder, and may improve accuracy. Unfortunately there is no easy way to tell which cases will work in which rifle other than trial and error.
     
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  8. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    As posted, yes, the .30-30 headspaces on the rim, but if you check shoulder length and full length size just enough to move the shoulder just enough so that it fits in all of the guns, I doubt accuracy will suffer and brass life will be satisfactory I am sure.

    The .375 SBG from Whidden should work to get shoulder measurements before sizing and then to set up the sizer. Just check the shoulder on fired brass from all of the rifles and set up the sizer to make them just fit in the shortest chamber.
     
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  9. whughett

    whughett Member

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    Resize brass as instructed by the die manufacturers.
    Brass brought back to its SAMMI specs will function in any lever, bolt or single shot gun of the correct caliber. Brass shot in auto loaders usually require a small base die.

    I loaded thousands of 30/30 in years past. It’s one of the most forgiving in terms of brass life of the centerfire rounds.
    Lube your cases, check the case length from time to time and always function chamber a few rounds during the reloading process. For rimless Ammo invest in a headspace gauge.
     
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  10. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    I have this, which i thought was for getting shoulder measurement but i believe i have the wrong tool. Can this be used in the same way as the tool you recomend? Perhaps im using it incorrectly. Screenshot_20190928-095546_Amazon Shopping.jpg
     
  11. gwpercle

    gwpercle Member

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    Speaking strictly about 30-30 , not anything else .
    1.) lever action rifles do not have a lot of leverage to chamber a round or extract a round .
    Bolt actions are another matter.
    2.) 30-30 brass is plentiful and cheap . I have picked up a lifetime supply discarded at the range , friends have given me boxes because they don't reload .
    3.) Because of 1 and 2 there is no sense trying to neck size only and extend case life .
    Just full length size all your brass so it will easily chamber in all the 30-30's you own .

    30-30 is a rather low pressure round the low pressure gives long case life to start with .

    If you insist on trying to get the least amount of shoulder set back , adjust sizing die untill a fired case , from each rifle will chamber in both rifles ...then screw it down 1/4 turn more...you will be good to go .
    Gary
     
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  12. whughett

    whughett Member

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    On jacketed bullet rounds. OAL is important for function as well as safety. However bullets can be set for a particular rifle by experimenting, especially on box magazines , with seating the bullet, chambering and checking the bullet for marks as the bullet engages the rifling. Seating a bullet out reduces the “jump” and can improve accuracy. On detachable box magazine one is limited by the magazines length.
    In my bench equipment are set up dummy rounds for every caliber every rifle, pistol and revolver I loaded for. Mostly from the single stage loading days. The Dillon with its tool heads largely replaced that practice.
     
  13. mdi

    mdi Member

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    Just my opinion; K.I.S.S. We're talking 30-30 in stock leverguns, which aren't bench rest accurate rifles. If you find that your handloads fit both guns, great, but I would just F/L size them. You mentioned case life. How many more reloadings do you expect to get by neck sizing and not "over working" 30-30 brass?
     
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  14. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    You're right and i agree. Hoped to get 4 firings out of what i have, anything beyond that would be a bonus (not set up to properly anneal yet). My wife has me on a pretty conservative budget so i want to get the most out of what i can. Of course i'm not benchrest shooting these rifles looking for supreme accuracy, just general use and mainly range use.
     
  15. whughett

    whughett Member

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    That’s how it starts. pretty much what I told wife sometime around 1975 or so.
    mdi
    The remarks on the OAL was generally off thread and aimed at rounds intended for bolt action rifles.
    Your right of course but even the lowly 30/30 can be vastly improved on. I carried one for years in Maine until it was replaced by the Mini 30.
    K.I.S.S. More than one connotation there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
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  16. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    I have always kept the shoulder in check when loading belted rounds. Doing this will insure that the rounds will chamber easily. I just setup my dies like it was another rifle rounds, moving the shoulder back around 0.002"-0.003". Tubular magazine fed normally requires a crimp into the canalure if the bullet has it.

    The Hornady set you have will work on measuring the shoulder position.
     
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  17. FLIGHT762

    FLIGHT762 Member

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    The Hornady set you have is NOT for measuring the case shoulder Datum. The set you have is for measuring the OGIVE of the bullet you are using.

    You want the Hornady Headspace comparator set to measure case base to shoulder datum.
     
  18. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    You can use a pistol cartridge brass over the neck that contacts the shoulder. This is for comparison only, your looking for the change after sizing. I've used this method for decades before I machined my own.
     
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  19. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep, but both are handy to have. The ones for measuring from base to the ogive might have a size that will work though.
     
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  20. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    Could you give me a brief decription on how to properly do this? I assume just place a pistol case over the neck resting on the shoulder and measure OAL , then compare that measurement to fired brass from the other chamber. This would tell me the difference between the two but obviously not case dimensions, i think i get what you're saying. I really have over thought this , but it has been in an effort to gain a solid understanding of bottlenecked cartridge case forming, i know its a lot less crucial for 30-30 than a lot of more modern/higher pressure cartridges. I have loaded one other bottlenecked cartridge (338 lapua mag.) But only bumped the shoulder back slightly, loaded 10 at a starting charge and they were reasonable. I have all the supplies for about a hundred more but took a step back and figured ill work with the 30-30 a while until i have the bugs worked out of the process a bit.
    It is such a different thing with rifle cartridges. That being said, i've loaded and shot many hundreds of 45-70, thousands of 357 mag and a couple thousand 454 casull/ 45 colt rounds i've assembled with great success and have been putting the bottleneck cartridges on the back burner but i can't avoid it any longer - getting low on factory ammo for them. Can't thank you all enough for the clarification, theres no doubt i could produce functional and safe bottlenecked cartridges before but i just want to do it to the best of my ability with what i have or can get without spending money i don't absolutely need to.
    Thanks!
     
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  21. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    You interpreted my description correctly. Most all gauges are comparators. This simple use of a spent pistol cartridge does the same thing. Since all your looking for is confirmation that you moved the shoulder back a couple of 1/1000" .
     
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  22. FLIGHT762

    FLIGHT762 Member

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    If the O/P has the 14 piece set he has pictured, he has the #1137 for .375" and the # 13/41 for .416". Since the insert holes are for measuring the bullet's Ogive and is not the actual bullet diameter, The O/P can measure the diameters and see which insert gets him closer to .375", which is the correct Datum size for the 30/30 Winchester.

    The O/P said he is on a tight budget and can't afford to buy other tools, Insert 1137 or 13/41, One or the other should work.

    O/P, does this make sense to you?
     
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  23. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    Yes, it does thanks. I can buy other tools as i go along of course, just wanted to get going with what i already have. $50 here and there i can get away with so i have been accumulating more as i go along but like i said i've only been at it less than 4 years. I appreciate the help.
    Makes sense, thanks!
     
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