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Rig a forearm brace on a Mares Leg?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Apple a Day, Aug 25, 2014.

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  1. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

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    I think Vern hit it on the head in post #23.
    Can't imagine what someone would do with one of those, they are a creation of Hollywood and I doubt if a historic representation can be found.
     
  2. Apple a Day

    Apple a Day Member

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    I think Vern and a lot of other people should actually read the original post instead of just the title and commenting.
    I have a .22 caliber Henry pistol which is about the most fun you can have without going belt fed. The larger bore versions were popular for a hot minute but they're awkward to shoot. They're be a lot more facile if they had the arm brace as a stock and would become great truck guns. There's money to be made - quite a bit - if someone made an arm brace for the .38/.357, .44 , .45 guns.
    There's the explanation for all those who didn't actually read the original post.


    Since no one has posted pics I will assume that the answer is "No, no one here has ever mounted a forearm brace to their mare's leg".
     
  3. MAKster

    MAKster Member

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    I hear the guy at Mossberg who designed the polymer lever gun with all the rails is working on a Sig brace model...just kidding.
     
  4. Ryanxia

    Ryanxia Member

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    460Kodiak - A C clamp or other type of adjustable/locking device would have been great. Most people do something themselves. Also, in regards to modifying it; as it is the Sig brace is not a stock, if modified, where is the line where it becomes a stock. I would suspect/hope that companies (Sig or other) are sending in other models to get approved by the ATF as well.

    Sorry to stray off topic of the thread. I'm done now. :D
     
  5. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    Oh...I think most of us read the OP before we answered. It's apparent tho, that the answers/responses we gave are not what you wanted to hear. The idea of a mare's leg is a short, easy to maneuver and conceal firearm, while being a cross between a pistol and a rifle. A firearm with very limited usages, BECAUSE IT IS AWKWARD TO SHOOT! If one really wanted a lever action handgun, why the heck do they now want a stock/forearm brace? Get a rifle/carbine and move on. A lever with a 16'' barrel will maneuver just as well as a Mare's Legs with a cobbled up forearm brace for a truck gun.This is similar to someone that likes the look of a Ruger #1 and then wants to cobble it somehow to make it a repeater. The reason because there are no pics of and no available forearm brace is because as I said in my first post, it kind defeats the whole purpose of the Mare's Leg. Altho they are constantly trying to do so, folks need to quit trying to make a firearm something they were never intended to be, and get the appropriate firearm in the first place, or admit their mistake, trade it or sell it and move on.
     
  6. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

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    For most people, the idea of a mare's leg is to have a short-barrelled lever-action that's still legal. A lot of people would probably prefer to have a usable stock on their mare's leg, but that's not legal without SBR registration.


    So they can shoulder their mare's leg without either breaking the law or having to register it as an SBR.


    No it won't. The longest mare's leg barrel I've seen is on the Rossi Ranch Hand, which is 12" long. How will a 16" barrel maneuver as a truck gun just as well as a 12" barrel? And if the "arm brace" is attached well, then it would function just like a stock.


    I've been thinking about buying a Rossi Ranch Hand in .357, threading the barrel, and SBRing it. But I can see how someone might want to rig up an "arm brace" on their mare's leg to avoid having to go the SBR route; if done properly it would handle and function just like a lever-action rifle with a 12" barrel.
     
  7. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    For most people, they bought the Mare's leg because it looked cool in the store, when they watched Zombieland, Wanted: Dead or Alive, and/or The Magnificent Seven or when they played the Resident Evil 3: Nemesis or the Metal Gear Solid V video games. I'd bet most had no idea of SBR regulations or the $200 tax stamp that goes with SBR ownership. They do not prefer a full stock, because then they wouldn't have a Mare's Leg and it would lose the "cool" factor.


    Again....no reason to buy a Mare's leg if you desire a shoulder stock. Buy a carbine or a regular handgun. Simple. Want a SBR, pay the $200 and have something as it was designed. Don't pay a premium price for a Mare's leg and then pay more money for a shoulder stock attachment trying to make it something it isn't.


    You keep claiming a "arm brace" will then make a Mare's leg function just like a SBR, without having to pay the $200. Again, why? To save $200? While folks cobble things and make them a poor excuse for something all the time to save $200, they are better off to buy something for that purpose in the first place. Most folks with "truck guns" get by just fine with standard carbines or standard handguns as for maneuverability. If they need a shorter barreled carbine, the $200 stamp is basically just the cost of half a dozen boxes of ammo.

    Again, the Mare's Leg is not and never was intended to be a tack driver or a multi-purpose firearm. It was mass produced like Zombie killing ammo because some folks buy stuff on looks instead of function and practicality. As a carbine it will never be the shooter it's full stocked 16'' brother is. As a handgun it will never hold a candle to a revolver, auto or Contender in matching calibers. For the most part, the revolvers and autos will hold as much or more ammo than the Mare's Leg, and for most folks.... standard handguns are more accurate. Why buy one then other than looks? Oh yeah, so one can spend money and cobble something together for a stock to get around the SBR regs.:rolleyes:

    They are a neat and unique firearm that has very few practical applications, regardless of some of the claims. Folks need to accept that when they buy them and forget about making them something else.
     
  8. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

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    Neither of us really know what "most people" want because I'm pretty sure neither of us have ever done any marketing research on this subject. I'm sure there are a lot of people who want a mare's leg just as it is, but there are also a lot of people who don't like the short stock and would like to be able to shoulder it like a rifle; I talked to a lot of those people at the LGS where I used to work.

    A lot of people are hesitant to get into the NFA game; they don't understand it or they simply don't like the idea of federal registration. Or both. To me, a mare's leg is a very similar concept to an AR pistol, and the SIG "arm brace" is very popular with people who own AR pistols. How is putting an arm brace on a mare's leg any different than putting it on an AR pistol?
     
  9. Ryanxia

    Ryanxia Member

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    Well said Theohazard.
    Also, where CLEO sign off is required for NFA, some places cannot obtain that due to personal opinion of their CLEO (not everyone knows about Trusts, etc.).

    For me, when I built my first AR pistol with a 10.5" barrel and Sig brace it was a really cool thing. Does that 5.5" make a huge difference? Probably not, but the fact that I can have what looks like an SBR without any paperwork was cool. Plus with an AR pistol/Mare's leg w/ brace, if you have a CCW you can legally keep it loaded in your vehicle (in my state at least).
     
  10. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    While neither of us may know the exact market profile of a Mare's Leg purchaser, one thing for sure. It is a small market, thus there are not "lots" of folks buying them. They are a niche firearm, and are because, again, the awkwardness of shooting them, especially in larger calibers. I doubt very much if a fore-arm brace is going to make a lot of folks buy them that wouldn't otherwise. I may be wrong.

    The difference between the fore-arm brace for AR style pistols is that the AR brace was originally intended for use as a fore-arm brace to be used by a disabled Veteran, to help him to be able to shoot an AR style pistol. It was never intended for a shoulder stock and is why is not not prohibited by the Feds. Another example of folks trying to make something into what it isn't. Your repeated claims of would like to be able to shoulder it like a rifle; again, is just another example of this. Using a fore-arm brace as a fore-arm brace, is fine, if you really need it. Using a fore-arm brace for a shoulder stock is like using a wheelbarrow for a walker. It works, but why not just get a walker?

    I really care less what folks buy as firearms. They are all good. One reason we have such a wide variety of platforms to choose from. My problem is buying a platform and then trying to make it into a different platform, when the different platform is already readily available and will result in a much better firearm. This happens the most when folks buy something on the cool factor instead of the practicality factor. I've seen folks that bought a pistol grip shotgun because the looked "tacticool", give themselves a bloody nose at the range first time they shot it. Maybe they need a "fore-arm" brace AKA "stock" too. Or maybe they just need to put regular stock on it and call it good.
     
  11. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

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    Regardless of its original intent, the forearm brace is now used as a stock by almost everyone who buys it. Have you ever actually used a SIG arm brace? It's absolutely horrendous as an arm brace; it makes the gun worse in every way. But it works very well as a stock.

    No, the SIG arm brace is successful because it lets you shoulder and fire your AR pistol without breaking the law or having to SBR it. I've never met anyone who actually uses it as an arm brace. And -- while I'm sure there are exceptions -- it has very little use as an arm brace even for most disabled people; even with one hand it's almost always easier to shoulder and fire your AR pistol instead of strapping it awkwardly to your forearm.

    Ryanxia and I have already pointed out why some people might not want to go the SBR route, but I'll list those reasons again:

    1. Many people don't understand how to get into NFA firearms.

    2. CLEO sign-offs are impossible to get in some places, and often people don't want to have to pay a lawyer for a trust.

    3. Many people don't like the federal registration that comes along with NFA weapons.

    4. Many people don't like the posession and travel restrictions that come along with SBRs.

    5. In many states it's illegal to have a loaded rifle in your car, but you can have a loaded pistol.

    You obviously have no personal experience with the SIG arm brace, and that's fine. But it's extremely popular amongst AR pistol owners for a good reason. And just because you don't understand those reasons and you find it useless, that doesn't mean everyone else does.
     
  12. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    IMHO, Continued published claims like this may go a long way to making the feds reconsider their stand on the arm brace. Better to walk/talk softly and carry that big stick.

    All of which are also eliminated with the purchase of a standard pistol, and is a platform that works better than a cobbled up SBR.

    I also have no experience using a wheelbarrow for a walker. But I know which I prefer. The reason the arm-brace used as a stock for those that have AR pistols is popular may also be because the platform that looked so cool in the store, does not function so coolly in the real world. Whoda ever thunk, eh?
     
  13. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

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    Once again, you clearly have no experience with the SIG arm brace: It works so well as a stock that it's often easy to forget that you're not shooting a rifle. The other day I was shooting some of my friend's guns, some of which were 16" rifles with normal stocks and others that were suppressed AR pistols with SIG arm braces. The arm brace works so well as a stock that I didn't even notice the difference between the two when I was shooting.

    So, since many people find the SIG arm brace (once properly adjusted) works just like a stock, it's therefore functionally just like an SBR for many people. So, in the quote above, you're basically saying that a pistol works better than an SBR? That's a ridiculous commment; a pistol is a different firearm than an SBR, and they each work better at different things.

    The SIG arm brace allows people to have a firearm that functions just like an SBR but without breaking the law or going the NFA route. By continuing to argue against this, you continue to express a strong opinion on a subject you obviously know nothing about, which I find odd.
     
  14. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    This is your experience, which you try and extrapolate this experience with a AR-pistol to the Mare's Leg and infer that your opinion is gospel. Which I find odd since you too have no experience with a Arm-Brace on a Mare's Leg. Go figure, eh?

    You think the arm-braces cobbled up to make for a shoulder stock are the neatest thing since light rails, so be it. I have no problem with that. To each their own.
     
  15. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

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    You're right, I have no experience with the arm brace on a mare's leg. But I have enough experience with the arm brace in general to think that the OP's idea of attaching one to a mare's leg is worth trying. But, due to your lack of experience with the arm brace, you dismissed the idea out of hand. That's the difference here.

    Actually, I don't have any plans to buy an arm brace. I was interested for a while, but now that SBRs are legal here in WA, I prefer a real stock to an arm brace. But I have enough personal experience using them that I can recognize why many people find them useful.
     
  16. mac66

    mac66 Member

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    One could conceivably mount an AR buffer tube on the butt end of the mare's leg and then put the brace on the tube. That's the how. The question is still the why. On the other hand why ask why? "Just because" is good enough.

    Here's a photoshopped version

    mareslegbrace_zps263f559e.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
  17. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    Because the walker comes with a $200 tax, and an eight month wait for paperwork approval, and the requirement to notify the ATF if you take it across state lines.

    It's a decent analogy but in this case it doesn't hold completely. Nobody uses an arm brace as a stock because they WANT to, but because they HAVE to.
     
  18. Ryanxia

    Ryanxia Member

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    While this thread needs to die at this point, on another note, I'm interested to see other companies' versions of the Sig Brace as they are developed, I can definitely see a 'western' version popping up from some random company out there. :D
     
  19. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    Post #41............... abomination
     
  20. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    I disagree. No one is forcing folks to buy a pistol instead of a carbine. No one is forcing folks to use a handgun as a long gun. They are doing this by personal choice. They also have the option of getting the tax stamp, unless they are prohibited from owning such firearms. There's a big difference between choice and "HAVE to". Maybe you can cite me an example where folks "HAVE to"?

    As for folks and their choices, so be it. It's one of the bonuses we have living here in America. Some have the opinion that an arm-brace used as a shoulder stock is the best option. Others, like me, not so much. Like our options in America, we also are entitled to our opinions and as has been shown on this thread, they can differ. Not a big deal. As with any firearm, what works for one is junk to another. Just nature of the beast.


    mareslegbrace_zps263f559e.jpg

    As this discussion progressed, I kept thinkin' to myself, one would only have to roll up a coupla pair of socks, stuff them in another sock and then pull that sock over the end of the Mare's leg stock....viola, a padded shoulder stock! It would function probably as well as the one above and not cost a cent. I come from a long line of Cobblesmiths.......maybe one reason I find cobbling so distasteful.:D

    I assume the idea of shoulder stock that skirts the lines of what's legal will also become popular in areas where hunting is limited to handguns. Folks are always looking for that "edge". While it may make the hunt easier for some because now they can become accurate with a minimum of practice, it clearly doesn't meet the definition of "hunting with a handgun". Maybe I'm just too much old school.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
  21. David E

    David E Member

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    Show me a picture of how it would look if it was "rigged up right."

    The open side facing down as designed where the forearm would go would prevent getting a grip around the wrist of the gun.

    If turned open side up, now you can't work the lever.

    If you're just after a partially shouldered position to make the shot, I'd think a replacement stock cut as long as legally possible (another inch or three?) would be a better option.

    The purpose of the gun? To emulate an iconic western tv character and to just plain have FUN with!
     
  22. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

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    It would need some sort of extension similar to a buffer tube. And you're right, it's possible that the current SB15 design just won't work well with a lever-action. But it's worth trying in my opinion. Maybe a different design of the arm brace like Ryanxia suggested?

    My whole point here is not that it will definitely work, or that it would ever even be popular, but only that it's worth trying. People like rifles with short barrels, but a lot of them don't (or can't) go the SBR route; that explains the popularity of AR pistols. And last year when the SB15 "arm brace" came out, a huge number of AR pistol owners bought SB15s.

    Now, I'm not saying that arm braces would be anywhere near as popular with mare's leg owners as they are with AR pistol owners, but I'm just saying that the concept is the same.
     
  23. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    ....kinda where I was goin' with the redneck stock extension made outta old socks.:D
     
  24. Ryanxia

    Ryanxia Member

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    The difference being, your methods are questionable at best and the Sig brace is proven to be in compliance with the ATF's views of the law. A homemade 'stock' can be made out of anything but the legality is the key. While the chances of getting caught are slim to none, you'll have ten years cooling your heels to think about if it was worth it.
     
  25. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    Sigh:rolleyes:......but this thread isn't about the Sig brace, nor is there any mass produced brace for the Mare's Leg that is proven to be in compliance with the federal regs as of yet. In the OP, the author asked if anyone had "rigged" up a forearm brace on their Mare's Leg. Thus, I assume he was talking something homemade. Anything like that would probably fall into the same category as the socks.:D As my posts have shown, I'm not the one that thinks a forearm brace/shoulder stock is necessary for the Mare's Leg. Thus, odds are, I ain't gonna get caught with one, or spend time in Federal prison because of one. Just a simple deduction from the facts presented.
     
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