Right to Carry in National Parks

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I agree, and know what you mean, but for the newer folks, a little clarification. The rider (iirc) is for the National Parks, which have different, and often stronger restrictions than the National Forests. I sometimes do black powder hikes called "treks" in historic garb, carrying my flintlock, etc, and found out that most of the areas near my home are "parks" and you can't carry even unloaded flintlocks in them..., but National Forests.., no worries.

The Blue Ridge Parkway as well as Skyline Drive go through both types of "National" areas. Part of the problem has been National Forests often butt up against National Parks, and you could walk from forest, where you are legal, to park where you were not, without knowing it. On paved, scenic routes you can go back and forth through either, and it's been very easy in the past for anybody to be very badly mistaken with dire consequences. So a little less complication and more consistency in the laws lets hope! :)

LD
 
The use of National Parks by drug cartels to grow marijuana is increasing. How can the lawful carry of firearms, by licensed law abiding citizens be anything but a good thing. The attached articles point out that National Parks are becoming summer havens for drug growers, that there are far too few Park Rangers to prevent confrontations between citizens and the dope manufacturers.

http://www.newser.com/story/58813/pot-farms-sprout-in-national-parks.html

We could legalize marijuana . . . and control it, or we ought to allow citizens using our parks to protect themselves from the scum that are squatting on our public lands.
 
Contacted my low-life Congress critters (2 senators, 1 rep) and B.O., not that they'll care.

Bush had nothing to do with it. It was started by several western Senators and it was through the US Senate that the change was made. It was the Reagan administration, FYI, that put the ban in place. Don't think that Republican presidents help the gun issues - they usually just "do no harm" - but they certainly don't really "help."

That's why I think now would be a great time for the Libertarian Party to rise up since people are not overly pleased with the two-party system.
 
It was the Reagan administration, FYI, that put the ban in place. Don't think that Republican presidents help the gun issues - they usually just "do no harm" - but they certainly don't really "help."

I have heard this several times but it simply is not true.

Before the Reagan rules were put in place, it was illegal to even transport a gun thru a national park. The rules Reagan put in place granted an exception for guns that were unloaded and out of reach in an enclosed container.
 
Working as a LE Park Ranger for the NPS is becoming increasingly more dangerous. This is especially true in the New Mexico, Texas and California with all of the drug smuggling going on in the areas. For example it is a requirement for Rangers working at the Organ Pipe monument in New Mexico to where Kevlar vests and carry a semi-automatic AR. If these officers are taking such heavy precuations you would think that the government would recognize the fact that law abiding citizens must be granted the right to carry in National parks, and monuments for self defense reasons.
 
Statistics Report:
# of forums message was posted: 12
# of views 8604
# of posts 421
# of people who sent emails 102

Top 3 responding forums:
1. www.defensivecarry.com 32
2. www.Trapshooters.com 20
3a. www.GunandGame.com 13
3b. www.USACarry.com 13

94% of the emails sent came from 6 forums:

www.defensivecarry.com
www.Trapshooters.com
www.GunandGame.com
www.USACarry.com
www.TheHighRoad.org:D
www.ShootersForum.com

I have dubbed these 6 The Quorum of Forums.

The mission of the Quorum is to use our collective strength to weigh in on the critical 2nd Amendment issues with the key influential elected and appointed officials at the decisive time.

I can't tell you how impressed I have been at the cooperation and effort and information that came from these 6 forums. Please tell this story. Spread the word about the Quorum and our mission. We need more members. We will not end up like England and Australia. We will fight the Brady Commission, and any other anti-gun group that tries to infringe on our 2nd Amendment rights, by speaking up and being heard by our elected officials.

The National Parks issue is not over so encourage all you know to contact their members of the House of Representatives and the President. Those are the key people now.

Signing off until the next critical issue at the decisive moment.
Thank you to all who participated.
Smity
 
RIGHT WING WHACKO - "I have heard this several times but it simply is not true.

Before the Reagan rules were put in place, it was illegal to even transport a gun thru a national park. The rules Reagan put in place granted an exception for guns that were unloaded and out of reach in an enclosed container."

You're correct. I have travelled quite a few times through various National Parks, before Ronald Reagan was elected President, and I distinctly remember they all had the "No Firearms Allowed" signs posted and brochures handed out at the entrance gates.

L.W.
 
I think on of the problems is that when you mention "National Monument or Park" to a CongressCritter, they think of downtown DC monuments and their surrounding area. They cannot get their collective heads out of their collective @$$es and remember that there are other areas too. Here in Columbia, SC, we have the Congaree National Monument. It's a swamp full of wild boars, snakes and a few gators. It has a boardwalk through the swamp, with a few low areas that a pig could jump up on, but the biggest area of defense would be the campsites. No carved granite monuments, just big trees and swamp. Oh, and big mosquitos!
 
It passed the Senate with a bipartisan 67 vote, veto-overriding, majority (the Dems and Ind's split 50-50 on it, 27-1 each side).

The House already has a similar amendment attached to the stalled DC Voting Rights bill, that's what's holding it up, the anti-gun leadership knows both will pass if they come up for a vote.

The DC Voting bill is popular with some politicians but there is massive public support from all quarters for the Credit Card Reform Act.

This legislation can't be "held up" by the anti-gun Dem leadership in the face of massive support by their own party simply because they dislike the gun rule change, the people would scream.

(note I'm assuming they actually listen to their constituents and have moments of clarity in thinking)

Notice also that this law is better than the DOI Reg change that is in court right now.

The rule change allowed for concealed carry only.

This law allows "carry per state law". Open or concealed, licensed or not.

Huge difference. Provides a template for future challenges to other Federal restrictions on carry on Federal property. After all, the Administration is on record saying states should be allowed to set their own rules on carry laws. :neener:

Think of it, changing the GFSZA to allow carry per state law, no matter if open or concealed, licensed or not. Publically accessible parking lots (at least) for Federal property, like Post Offices, ruled the same; "allowed per state law" not entirely barred.

It sets up the argument that if there is no harm allowing this on all these other publically accessible Federal locations, which are the majority of Federal property, what then is the logic for treating the rest any differently?

Baby steps, baby steps...
 
The bill with the Coburn amendment was passed through the Senate in a 90-5 majority. The differences with the House bill will need to be worked out. We could still lose this before it hits Obama's desk.

This is totally true, but I am very optimistic. Having just read several articles concerning this on the national news websites, it seems that the House is treating this as fiat accompli. The major reason is that Obama is breathing down their necks to have this on his desk by Friday. It would be nearly impossible to resolve this by then if the House diverges from the Senate bill (in fact, it might kill it outright). It seems they are going to vote on it in two parts, but the gun amendment will win in the House also. The only hope the antis ever had was the leadership holding it up. They will lose a straight-up vote by a wide margin. Afterwards, it will be resolved back into one bill and passed again by both houses and sent onto Obama who has already indicated he will sign it. The president must accept or veto a bill in its entirety.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congress_credit_cards

House Democratic Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., told reporters on Tuesday that the House might vote separately on the gun proposal so as not to bog down the credit card overhaul.

If the two bills are passed separately as expected, they would be rejoined before being sent to the president as a single bill, said Hoyer, D-Md.
 
UPDATE

The following was posted on the Gun Owners of America web site today:

*****************************************
Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

Tuesday, May 19, 2009

Get ready to pinch yourself.

After eight years of clashing with anti-gun bureaucrats and
congressional leadership hostile to gun rights, we have never been
closer to victory in the battle to repeal the National Park Service
(NPS) gun ban.

As you are by now undoubtedly aware, NPS land is subject to a blanket
gun ban. A Bush administration regulation partially reversing the ban
was singlehandedly negated recently by an activist judge in Washington,
D.C.

Gun Owners of America reported last week about an amendment to repeal
the gun ban, sponsored by Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK), that passed by an
overwhelming 67-29 vote. Senator Coburn attached his amendment to a
fast-moving "must pass bill," H.R. 627, dealing with credit card
industry reform.

The Coburn amendment simply allows for state law -- not unelected
bureaucrats and activist judges -- to govern the carrying of firearms on
NPS land.

"Visitors to national parks also should have the right to defend
themselves in accordance with the laws of their states," Sen. Coburn
said.

The Senate wrapped up business on the underlying bill today, while the
House passed its version of the bill several weeks ago. The measure now
heads back to the House to be "reconciled" with the Senate bill.

The problem for anti-gun House leaders is that their priority bill, H.R.
627, now contains a pro-gun amendment. Speaker Nancy Pelosi is forced
to either delay the entire bill in order to try to strip the popular
pro-gun amendment out later in the year, or allow the underlying bill to
move through the House before Memorial Day with the Coburn amendment
intact.

Sources close to the situation tell GOA that the Democrat leadership,
which has opposed the NPS gun ban repeal at every turn, may have finally
run out of options. The enormous outpouring of grassroots activism from
GOA supporters may have at last convinced congressional leaders that if
they bury this measure yet again, the repercussions will reverberate
into the next election.

President Obama wants to sign this credit card legislation before
Memorial Day. So it is possible that there will be just one more vote
on this issue in the House this week. As of today, it appears the
leadership plans to bring the underlying bill to the floor in two pieces
for two separate votes -- one on the main bill and one on the Coburn
amendment.

If both pieces pass the House, then they can be combined together as one
bill and sent directly to the President without going to a House-Senate
conference committee. (There would be no need to iron out differences
in conference committee since the Senate would have already passed the
exact same version of the bill.)

Bottom line: we just need to make certain that the gun ban repeal
amendment passes in the House, after which it will be joined back up
with the main bill and signed into law. That's why the action item
below -- asking you to urge your Representative to vote for repealing
the NPS gun ban -- is so crucial.

This could be the last strike in a long battle, but even on the cusp of
winning GOA has also learned that some -- supposedly on the pro-gun side
-- are willing to compromise away this victory. Please be absolutely
sure to take the action below, and then forward this email to your
pro-gun friends.

And remember, the progress we have made on this issue would not be
possible without your support. GOA has been the lone voice fighting for
this gun ban repeal on Capitol Hill.

Action: Contact your Representative and urge that the Coburn amendment
remain attached to H.R. 627. The vote is scheduled to occur this week!

Please use the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at
http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Rep. the pre-written
e-mail message below.

----- Pre-written letter -----

Dear Representative,

Last week, an amendment to repeal the National Park Service (NPS) gun
ban passed overwhelmingly in the Senate by a vote of 67-29 as part of
the credit card reform bill.

NPS land is subject to a blanket gun ban. Although a Bush
administration regulation partially reversed the ban, that reversal was
singlehandedly negated by an activist judge in Washington, D.C.

The pro-gun amendment, sponsored by Sen. Tom Coburn, prevents unelected
bureaucrats and activist judges from stripping me of my Second Amendment
rights on NPS land.

It appears that the leadership plans to bring the underlying bill to the
floor in two pieces for two separate votes -- one on the main bill and
one on the Coburn amendment.

I urge you to stand up for my Second Amendment rights and to support the
effort to keep the Coburn amendment attached to the underlying bill,
H.R. 627.

Gun Owners of America will score this vote in its congressional rating,
and will inform me of how you vote.


----------------------------------------------------

What is Your Current GOA Status?

Obviously, we now face years of invigorated attacks on our gun rights.
Shutting down gun shows, prohibitions on specific calibers, another
semi-auto ban, and the anti-gun extremists' Holy Grail of mandatory
federal licensing and registration of all gun owners -- these are just
some of the horrors that we already know we'll have to defeat head-on.
Meanwhile, we'll take every opportunity to go on offense and advance the
Second Amendment.

It can't be done without every single voice being counted. That's why we
are asking you to consider making the commitment of becoming a Gun
Owners of America Life Member. By doing so, you put the politicians on
notice that neither you nor GOA is going away -- that no matter who's in
the White House, there is always going to be a solid wall of resistance.

Now is a perfect time to become a Life Member. And if you aren't a GOA
member at all, isn't it time you became one?

Please go to Join GOA Online With our Secure Online Membership form. to upgrade your
participation in GOA.
**************************************************

I sent another letter, through GOA this time, just to my Representative. The simple fact is that we may never get this opportunity again.

Good luck everyone. In three days, we find out the future of our 2nd Amendment rights.

Smity
 
Nice to see the GOA continuing to take sole credit for anything pro-gun and still beating the drums of falling skies... :rolleyes:

Good job to the pro-gunners on both sides of the aisle and to ALL who worked on passage (I'm sure someone had to hold Larry C's coat for him) :rolleyes:, looks like the President will sign it before the weekend.
 
The Credit Card Bill of Rights has passed the House WITH the Coburn Amendment! President Obama is expected to sign the bill into law Thursday or Friday.

Great job everyone! You all were part of the something great. Stay sharp -- other issues are coming.

Smity
 
The Blue Ridge Parkway as well as Skyline Drive go through both types of "National" areas. Part of the problem has been National Forests often butt up against National Parks, and you could walk from forest, where you are legal, to park where you were not, without knowing it.

Thanks, I have traveled thru this area many times and never even thought about the gun laws. Darn, I was a criminal and didn't even know it......
 
saw this article on Yahoo, from the AP on how Liberals are muffed as to why they aren't getting any new gun control legislation passed:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090524/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_liberals


That poor excuse for a congresswoman Rep. McCarthy just doesn't get it.

some excerpts from the article:


As for trying to keep loaded guns out of national parks, Cummings said, "I don't think he put a lot of energy into it." Issues such as national security and the distressed economy deserve greater attention, at least for now, he said, adding that the president "picks his fights very carefully."

Such explanations provide small comfort to left-leaning Democrats after eight years of George W. Bush's presidency and nearly a dozen years of Republican control of Congress.

"We'll probably end up passing more gun bills" that expand owners' rights "than we did during the Republican administration," said Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., a leading gun control advocate. "That is what surprises me."

She placed less blame on the White House than on ordinary Americans and advocacy groups that are consistently outflanked by gun owners' groups, especially the National Rifle Association.

"Until the American people say enough is enough, and get active in it," Democratic control of Congress and the White House will not be enough to turn the tide, said McCarthy, whose husband was killed by a gunman in 1993.



Also Wednesday, the House voted overwhelmingly to join the Senate in letting people carry loaded guns in national parks and wildlife refuges. More than 100 House Democrats and 174 Republicans voted for the gun measure, which was attached to an Obama-backed bill imposing new restrictions on credit card companies.

Earlier this year, gun-rights supporters derailed a bill to give the District of Columbia voting rights in Congress by adding a provision that would repeal the city's strict gun regulations.

The gun votes were less surprising to many Democrats than were the Guantanamo developments. The NRA remains among the most powerful lobbies, and many lawmakers take care to stay off its political enemies list.

"People do not want to be on the wrong side of this particular cultural divide," said Rep. David Price, D-N.C., who supports tougher gun controls. "It's too bad there's not a more responsible national organization" to counteract the NRA, he said.

In some ways, the gun-control lobby is choking on Democratic success in congressional races. "The seats we're picking up come disproportionately from those more conservative areas," Price said, where linking the Democratic Party to gun control can be dangerous at re-election time.

Rep. Lynn Woolsey of California is another Democrat frustrated by the gun debate. When she asks colleagues why they don't support tougher restrictions, she said, they reply, "You just don't get it, Woolsey. You don't have our districts."

"It has to do with being afraid they'll lose their election if they stand up against guns," she said.



Many Democratic lawmakers predicted that Obama will resolve the Guantanamo problem and eventually turn to gun issues, where he has advocated ownership rights with "common sense" regulations.

"I do believe that down the road the president will start working on some of the gun violence issues," said McCarthy, the New York Democrat. "But let's face it," she said. "We've got an awful lot of issues on our plate right now
 
What do you call an unarmed jogger in the hills of california? lunch for the mountain lions.

now that we get to keep our guns, they will find some way to make the bullets or some componet of the bullets illegal or restricted.
 
What do you call an unarmed jogger in the hills of california? lunch for the mountain lions.

Everything I have ever read about mountain lions, a gun would do no good. The sneak up behind you and get you when you least expect it. Granted, I'd rather have a sidearm than not in that situation, but I'm more worried about the two legged predators.
 
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