Risk Management in Winter Weather

You can fall on the ice in some remote parking lot too. I don't see the idea of falling by my house to be different, accept maybe drinking at the neighbors, or home.

I am a little complacent because I would never live in a place like St Lious. Though few years back guy out of prison, but is car in the ditch, hijacked another, put that in the ditch, and then walked up to a farm and killed the old couple there.

The victims gun malfunctioned. I wondered about that. Some old junker never exercised, or wife unloaded the gun and they didn't want to say?

I don't carry in the house, I keep guns nearby. I l also realize the complacency in this. 10 feet might as well be a mile, if a breaks the door down and points a gun at you. I'd like to think me yelling at the dogs to quit barking might buy a second.
 
I quit carrying in the small of my bike, with the gun on my spine because of this question. Not saying I never would again.

I wear a gun in the woods, much more chance of falling in woods. On my hip, has never really concerned me.
 
It is interesting to read about southerns wondering what to do when in gets cold. Up here, it just means easier to conceal a gun. It is not really any special thought, that I know of.
 
It is interesting to read about southerns wondering what to do when in gets cold. Up here, it just means easier to conceal a gun. It is not really any special thought, that I know of.
ice is just as dangerous in Memphis, on the rare occasions when it happens; in St. Louis, where it happens, as it did this week; in Chicago, where it is not uncommon, and where I experienced the ice storm 1965, which stopped the city cold; and anywhere north.
 
I witnessed our (then) sheriff, who wanted to personally make a high profile arrest fall about 18 inches off of a porch and land on his weapon when the suspect resisted. He was a retired state trooper and frankly too old to be out on the street making arrests. He was off work for a couple months. There was another deputy and two city officers there. He didn't need to try to make the arrest.

There was no ice involved but falling on your weapon can bring serious injury. This thread is the first time I've seen this discussed for the armed citizen. Good discussion of an important issue.
 
I'm not sure there
I witnessed our (then) sheriff, who wanted to personally make a high profile arrest fall about 18 inches off of a porch and land on his weapon when the suspect resisted. He was a retired state trooper and frankly too old to be out on the street making arrests. He was off work for a couple months. There was another deputy and two city officers there. He didn't need to try to make the arrest.

There was no ice involved but falling on your weapon can bring serious injury. This thread is the first time I've seen this discussed for the armed citizen. Good discussion of an important issue.
It's a very valid discussion point and it's wise to give some serious thought to where one chooses to carry their firearm on their body. I've seen some nasty falls from both landing on a handgun and also from taking a knee with an AR on a single point sling and taking an uppercut to the chin from the buttstock.

Never let the risk factor from your own gun outweigh that of an external threat.
 
Great thread. I've been concerned watching guys trying to go for time in matches and run fast and engage in positional gyrations that make them fall. Luckily most have kept the gun down range. There was one guy trying to run down a pathway and fell flat on his face. Then he got up and tried to run and plopped again! I said the SO should have stopped him. Others said, well he was still 'safe' and we didn't to screw up his match. So let him rest and go again. But that offends the gamers! I thought that if you take a full face plant twice, your mental status might be a touch off and you need to sit down. But the game was more important.
 
For several years now I've chosen to be armed any time I leave my house, even to check the mailbox less than 30' from my front door.

My "village" is pretty quiet and relatively crime-free, on the outer edge of the county. No PD and Sheriff's Dept patrols my road about once weekly. I realize I and my neighbors are mostly on our own. I also realize that a lot of crime victims are targets of opportunity. Broken down along the road, walking to the mailbox in PJ's, flopping around on the ice like an upside down turtle.

I'm assuming there's no real tactical way to bust your keister unexpectedly. If falling on a weapon is a concern, maybe find a way to carry that makes it either less likely to be what you land on or less likely to hurt if you do?
 
I realize that this is a gun-centric forum, so this has to be a gun-centric topic but past a certain age Falling Down is painful and serious whether you have a gun on you or not.

And I would be worried about that most of the people that participate in this forum are past that age
 
I realize that this is a gun-centric forum, so this has to be a gun-centric topic but past a certain age Falling Down is painful and serious whether you have a gun on you or not.

And I would be worried about that most of the people that participate in this forum are past that age
That's going to be different for other people. The falling down part is not so much the problem, it's where you land that is the main concern. Could be fatal regardless of age as well.
 
I realize that this is a gun-centric forum, so this has to be a gun-centric topic but past a certain age Falling Down is painful and serious whether you have a gun on you or not.

And I would be worried about that most of the people that participate in this forum are past that age
Absolutely! Falling on a gun could exacerbate the problem, but not carrying is only a partial mitigation.
I'm assuming there's no real tactical way to bust your keister unexpectedly.
Eh?
If falling on a weapon is a concern
Anyone who has ever done so will tall you that it is.
 
Tongue-in-cheek. Even though some people are able to fall down sort of gracefully, most don't.
Anyone who has ever done so will tall you that it is
I have and agree, but it isn't among my biggest concerns. In the instance that it happened to me, my first thoughts were hoping the gun wasn't damaged and making sure the magazine hadn't ejected. I had that few seconds of clarity before I felt the pain.
 
my first thoughts were hoping the gun wasn't damaged
I believe that one who falls on a gun hard enough to damage it will not be getting up for a while.

Falls vary in tems of impact. A fall on glaze ice that quickly takes the legs out from under the victim can be extremely severe. Falling on a weapon, or on other carried items, can be much more harmful, because the force per unit area is greatly increased in the area of the carried item. The most effective mitigation strategy is to stay off the ice. If that is not possible, wearing ice cheaters should be a no brainer. Increasing the force per unit area by not carrying anything small and hard will also help.

Those who insist on carrying should remind themselves that the gun is of no use as a talisman, and that trying defensive movements, drawing rapidly, and so on will surely increase the likelihood of a fall.
 
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So I have to take out the garbage cans across our snowy drive way. I hope Iand on my fat butt rather than my OWB Glock. I have taken some bone breaking falls and think this is a very useful thread, Kleanbore.
 
I realize that this is a gun-centric forum, so this has to be a gun-centric topic but past a certain age Falling Down is painful and serious whether you have a gun on you or not.

And I would be worried about that most of the people that participate in this forum are past that age
About a decade ago I worked for a company specializing in "senior care" and surgery rehabilitation. What they taught us was that people over 70 with other common conditions (things like high blood pressure) very often died within 90 days of a hip fracture. The fracture itself wasn't lethal, but the cumulative effects of the injury, age, and other health conditions, combined with the loss of mobility during recovery was almost always fatal. Pneumonia or something else would drop the O2 levels and then the heart or other organs began to fail. My memory isn't great for details like this, but I think they said 85% mortality within 90 days. YMMV because the care facility, medical staff, and the actual patient are all variables that can affect it.

This is one more area where you have to do an assessment of your own life and make adjustments to address the highest risks. I prefer carrying more forward - IWB at 1:30 or 2:00 - for many reasons, but I think falling may be another one.

By the time I fall in a direction that allows the pistol to impact my bones more than my gut special, organic trauma reduction padding, my face should have done an excellent job of stopping the fall! 😵
 
I do not like going out when there roads are slippery....but when I have chosen to brave the elements to walk across the street to share a drink and visit my neighbor's big, friendly, warm canine family members, it has been my practice to not carry.

I think the injuries iI might sustain in a fall would likely be less severe; and I have reasoned that the likelihood of criminal predators being outing about in winter weatherwould be lower than usual.

But--the other day in St. Louis, a man's car became stuck in the snow and ice, and a "good Samaritan" in an SUV came along and helped him.

And then, as the man stepped out of his vehicle in the parking garage, there was the same man, threatening him with a gun and demanding money.

Police officials here have been on the air warning people to watch out for criminals in this weather.

Gosh!
In the cold weather, I am more likely to slip a J-frame into a coat pocket. Easier to access. Maybe in addition to my primary carry under the coat.
 
In the cold weather, I am more likely to slip a J-frame into a coat pocket. Easier to access. Maybe in addition to my primary carry under the coat.
We just had a long thread on carrying with heavy clothing.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-heavy-jacket-in-winter.936259/#post-13039639

And one on small vs larger guns, and small revolvers vs small semiautos. The snub revolver scored last, but people who practice a great deal may do well enough.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/big-guns-vs-small-guns.936883/#post-13055071

i could see pocket carry, depending on the weather and the jacket.

i pocket carried a J-frame at one time. Never again, if I can avoid it. If I were to carry a revolver today, it would be a K6a.

If there is ice on the ground, or if freezing rain is imminent, I will stay in if possible. If I must go out, I will not carry.
 
I do not like going out when there roads are slippery....but when I have chosen to brave the elements to walk across the street to share a drink and visit my neighbor's big, friendly, warm canine family members, it has been my practice to not carry.

I think the injuries iI might sustain in a fall would likely be less severe; and I have reasoned that the likelihood of criminal predators being outing about in winter weatherwould be lower than usual.

But--the other day in St. Louis, a man's car became stuck in the snow and ice, and a "good Samaritan" in an SUV came along and helped him.

And then, as the man stepped out of his vehicle in the parking garage, there was the same man, threatening him with a gun and demanding money.

Police officials here have been on the air warning people to watch out for criminals in this weather.

Gosh!
One of our OFF DUTY officers was in a larger city neaby and was carjacked with his 13 & 15 year old teens with him.
Carjacker displayed a handgun, then drove off with the 13 YO in the back seat.
Off duty fired at jacker and hit him,but he drove off anyway WITH the teen in the car.
Just a matter of are you armed or not.
Jacker lived and kid jumped out.
FIRM believer in being armed 24/7.
 
One of our OFF DUTY officers was in a larger city neaby and was carjacked with his 13 & 15 year old teens with him.
Carjacker displayed a handgun, then drove off with the 13 YO in the back seat.
Off duty fired at jacker and hit him,but he drove off anyway WITH the teen in the car.
Just a matter of are you armed or not.
Jacker lived and kid jumped out.
Actually, we have had a couple of similar incidents here, since I started the thread.
FIRM believer in being armed 24/7.
That's my preference too, but there are places where it is not permitted, and as discussed here, I weigh the risks.

Personally, if I think it safe enough to drive, I will not refrain from carrying.

I may be a little more risk averse than some others when it comes to winter driving. I went out yesterday, and random areas of refrozen ice on the previous cleared sheets presented a danger. The AWD was shifting the the power to the wheels around. But there were people driving at excessive speeds and paying no attention to the surface variations.
 
Having always worked outdoors my carry methods vary with the type of work and the climate. My reasons for carrying are probably a little different from most people and the personal acknowledgement that always having my firearm with me was more important than draw speed gave me options.
Over the past year one of the thinner 380s has become a constant companion carried in one of the softshell sticky type holsters. I've been pleasantly surprised how well this combo works, not only with the versatility of the holster but with the cushion effect it offers when carried in the waistline while laying on frozen ground. I will also admit that while I've never been a fan of pocket carry a few years ago I switched from jeans to cargo pants and often find myself slipping my carry in the side pocket where it rides comfortably. That also puts it in a somewhat similar location to a dropped holster rig sometimes used at the range.
Though I've reached retirement age I still find myself working on the ground (sometimes intentionally, sometimes not!) and this method seems to work well for me at present.
 
Made it alive, driving through a snow storm to an indoor match. Had a choice of a twisty shorter road along a creek vs. a longer straight path. Of course, I took the manly twisted path. Now my 4WD SUV did fine but I did wonder if I was going to end in the creek. Came home the straight way. Walked across a snow covered parking lot to the facility in heavy weather boots and clothes. OWB gun. Made it - no falls! Phew!

One guy said that he slid through an intersection but without hitting anything. Took baby steps across the snow covered driveway to the mail box. The HOA team has now plowed and cleared for us geezers. I do like cold weather better than the inferno, though. Deer tracks all over the snow, they come out at night and look for vegetation to eat. You see the footprints come up to the shrubbery. Got to drive slow down the two lane roads as they dart out. Just missed a few.
 
... The snub revolver scored last, but people who practice a great deal may do well enough. ...
Yeah, since a lot of younger gun enthusiasts weren't really around for the heyday of the service/defensive revolver, DA (and then DAO) revolver skills are a bit more scarce. Even back in the heyday of revolvers the 'average' revolver shooter typically found that their basic revolver skills often weren't up to the task of letting them use a smaller and lighter snub quite as well and effectively as they might hope. Lots of folks used them as 'self defense talismans', but shied away from having to use them at the range.

It might be nice if the modern resurgence of the DA/DAO revolver results in more folks endeavoring to develop, refine and maintain the skills needed to run the little wheelguns. ;) That means more instructors who need to be up-to-speed on them, though, and able to impart their knowledge to a newer generation of shooter.

In the meantime, I'm really glad I was a wheelgun owner and shooter before I entered LE, and then was around for the tail end of the service revolver for several years, and then apprenticed myself as a fledgling firearms training under a rangemaster who was a longtime revolver shooter. He'd also competed in PPC, and was our S&W and Colt (issued Pythons) revolver armorer for some years. He built some rather nice PPC S&W's over the years, too. I regret not letting him build me one on a K-frame after he retired, but I did manage to receive a 3" M65 from his estate, which has meaning to me since it was the class gun he built for his factory revolver class when they did it that way in older times. (They offered the option to buy your class gun, too, and ship it to a FFL.)

I still make sure I take one (or more) of my J's to the periodic retired ID renewal and LEOSA qual sessions, and run drills with at least one of them for regular range sessions. :)
 
If someone really wanted to carry in cold weather it seems to me a small revolver in an outside jacket pocket is more accessible than the normal IWB rig. Plus, it has the padding of the jacket between it and you so falling on it might not be as bad.

It's certainly something to consider as I get older. Right now my solution is just to stay indoors LOL.
 
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