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RMR .40 Mixed FMJ Pulled bullets - 155, 165, 180

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by vaalpens, Apr 18, 2019.

  1. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    I do not believe it is that simple. 231 is 30% nitro, where Titegroup is 40. But Sport Pistol has only 10% nitro content and also makes more velocity at a given pressure than 231. I have been unable to establish the nitro content of AA#2, and I have looked at length.

    I know from our previous discussions you don't like Titegroup, but as I've researched double-base powders I've found that 40% nitro content is the overwhelming number. Bullseye, Unique and BE86 are all 40% powders. Whatever one may dislike about Titegroup can't really be laid at the feet of its nitro content - as that is shared with most popular double-base powders.

    The 'powder profiles' from Handloader magazine seems to be the only way to get this figure. I may break down and buy their book of them just to be able to establish the nitro content of the powders we all use. But mark my word - most are 40%.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  2. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Nitro content adds energy, which adds velocity. Rifle powders use it for the same reason. Pressure curves matter of course, the longer it can stay at max pressure without being over the more velocity we will get.

    I knew Bullseye and BE-86 were high nitro content, but would have bet lunch Unique was middle of the road. Sure about that?

    Nitro content also make things hotter unless they do something to minimize it.

    I am not blaming everything about Titegroup on the nitro content, but it is part of it. Titegroup burns hot.

    I asked Alliant and Ramshot about the nitro content in some powders a few years back, here are the replies.

    Is American Select a single or double based powder?

    Technically, it is a double base powder, but the amount of NG is very small. It is approx 5%.
    Thanks for your interest in contacting us and let me know if you have any additional questions.

    Thanks. What is the average % for double base powders?

    It varies. Red Dot is 20%, Bullseye and Power Pistol 40%, Blue Dot 15%.

    There are several in the 15 to 20% range. American Select is the

    lowest, Bullseye and Power Pistol are the highest.

    Ben Amonette
    Consumer Service Manager
    Alliant Powder Company


    Thank you for your interest in Ramshot Powders. Ramshot Competition is a double based powder

    Competition has a 23% NG Content. Zip and True Blue run about 20% NG Content and Enforcer is about 12%, as a comparison.

    Bob
     
  3. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    But one does not dictate the other.Sport Pistol has less nitro but produces velocity per grain similar to many 40% powders, and greater than 231 which is 30%. To pressure, no powder maintains its pressure peak, peak meaning what it does.
    Absolutely positive. There is no difference in chemical composition between Bullseye and Unique, it's in the granulation. This is why I wish I had all the percentages - I believe we perceive these powders a certain way and look for rationale to support that impression. Powders like Power Pistol or BE86 don't burn cooler than Titegroup, they just burn slower.

    I've posted this link before, it speaks directly to the chemical formulation of Unique and the historical role of nitroglycerin in smokeless powders.
    http://stevespages.com/L&R-Smokeless-F16P.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  4. kcofohio
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    kcofohio Contributing Member

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    I should add that the ten or so I put aside, a few measured the same length as a 180 gr. but the weight was about 170 gr. as an example. So the ones with weight to length ratio not in line with the others go to the scrap bullet can.
    But I still got a good share of good ones in the order. No regrets. :)
    It's just good to inspect them.
     
  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not saying it does, just that it adds energy and velocity. Velocity is a result of everything together, a function I do not claim to fully understand.

    In general, I am a fan of low and no nitro content pistol powders. Glad to hear Sport Pistol is 10%, because I like it.
     
  6. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    That was really the point I was trying to make - there are a lot of powders you might like in practice, and be completely unable to guess their nitro content. Like Sport Pistol or Unique. I do not understand the chemistry well enough to try to judge a powder by it, and do not recommend the practice.
     
  7. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    upload_2019-6-4_21-36-4.png

    Walkalong, looks like Unique is middle of the road at 20% at least according to Paul from Alliant Reloading.
    (I was curious so I PMed Alliant Reloading, best way to get a good answer;))

    I like hearing SP is lower nitro at 10%.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
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  8. Alliant Reloading

    Alliant Reloading Member

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    My understanding is that PM stands for private message.
     
  9. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    It's always good practice to obtain permission/consent to publicly post information shared in "private messages". ;)
     
  10. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I would think the nitro content of an Alliant powder wouldn't be a states secret. I certainly shared that info when Alliant emailed an answer to me about my nitro content question. :)
     
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  11. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    It might be because the answer disproves the whole "Unique has been essentially the same product since 1900" lore. Unique was 40% NG but is now 20%. Here is the original formulation:

    upload_2019-6-5_19-32-35.png

    That is 39.44% Nitroglycerin. But this was changed in 1960, making it arguably an entirely different powder.

    upload_2019-6-5_19-33-49.png

    My apologies for the error in recollection. I do recommend the source work for those interested in these topics. It is authoritative, even if my memory is not.

    http://stevespages.com/L&R-Smokeless-F16P.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
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  12. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    That is a big change from 40ish to 20ish%. But if it changed in 1960, it has been essentially the same for most of us. And of course we do not know what changes made it the "new cleaner burning" Unique.
     
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  13. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    No worries!
    Doing good to remember my name sometimes.

    I suffer from CHS, a terrible disease

    CHS->Can't remember Sh....;)
     
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  14. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    I agree we won't have to throw out our 'old' data. And it's not a big deal to me personally, but there were claims made.

    upload_2019-6-5_20-47-27.png
     
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  15. Locochief

    Locochief Member

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    Received my second order of .40 mixed pulls from RMR.

    I can say I was surprised at the lack of 180gr with only a total of 24 out of 1117 bullets. There was sealer on most of the 155's and on some of the 165's but that will come off (no pins) in about an hour in the tumbler.

    I received a total of 1117 bullets with four unusable. The distribution was 155gr - 296, 165gr - 793, and 180gr - 24.

    As with the first order the pull mark's were negligible and the weight spread was small. Once again a great experience with RMR.

    I have never loaded or shot 155's so this is giving me additional experience with my 40's.

    20190607_143011.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  16. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    Sure hope my order arriving today is mostly 180gr.
     
  17. kcofohio
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    kcofohio Contributing Member

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    Here was the count of my order.

    20190513_192117.jpg
     
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  18. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    I wont complain because of the price. Its just we spent 3 days on the 40cal thread and most the posts were about 180gr.
     
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  19. kcofohio
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    kcofohio Contributing Member

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    I can understand that. When I ordered pulled HSTs and plated, the major part of them were 180 gr. Go figure. But at the price....
     
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  20. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    If you need 180 gr bullets, I can PIF or we could swap for 155/165 gr bullets.
     
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  21. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    They should be here today. I will see what's in there and let my brother decide. :)
     
  22. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    I got plenty of Berry's/RMR 180 gr plated TCFP/RNFP and MBC Hi-Tek coated 180 gr TCFP along with lead 180 gr TCFP.

    And I can readily shoot 155/165 gr bullets.

    Talk to your brother and let me know. I can add the bullets to the PIF 40S&W brass (I was planning to add some bullets anyways. ;):D Tumbling the brass before I packed them into shipping boxes).
     
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  23. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    PM sent. :)
     
  24. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Sound good. :thumbup:
     
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  25. vaalpens

    vaalpens Member

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    I just leave the sealer on. I don't know if it makes any difference, but for me at least if feels like the bullets with sealer seats tighter. Could just be my imagination.

    I also only started loading 155gr bullets when I started buying pulled bullets. With the last batch I did not get many 155gr's, but in a previous non RMR pulled bullets I received more. Following is an overview of the testing I have done with pulled 155gr jacketed bullets. The top picture shows the grouping at 15 yards with Longshot giving me very good consistency. I have a few 155gr bullets left so I will probably work up loads with BE-86 and W244 when I have the time.
    pulled_40sw_155gr_fmjrnfp_overview.PNG
     
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