RMR New 124gr HP 9mm

[Doublehelix]

Here is the data for the BE-86 loads that I worked up.

Not a good ladder, I started way too hot, and things got too high very quickly. I need to go back and start lower and work up. I was way over Minor Power Factor out of the gate, and it felt way too snappy and not comfortable, especially with the polymer gun.

I worked up loads from 5.3 gr up to 5.7 gr at 1.0125". I actually loaded some at 5.9 gr, but never shot them after seeing what was happening at 5.7. Way overpower.

I have not inspected my brass yet, but a quick look seemed fine. I will check them under the magnifying glass later to see how they look at 5.7, but they were WAY too hot, even at 5.3.

These were all shot from the H&K VP9:

Series No 21
Total number of shots 6

Bullet Type: RMR JHP
Powder: BE-86
Weight: 5.3
COAL: 1.125
Primer: CCI 500
Case: Federal

Stats - Average 1133.51 fps
Stats - Highest 1152.44 fps
Stats - Lowest 1108.57 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 43.86 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 14.57 fps

Avg Power Factor 137.21


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Series No 22
Total number of shots 7

Bullet Type: RMR FMJ
Powder: BE-86
Weight: 5.4
COAL: 1.125
Primer: CCI 500
Case: Federal

Stats - Average 1175.11 fps
Stats - Highest 1188.23 fps
Stats - Lowest 1157.62 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 30.6 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 9.66 fps

Avg Power Factor 142.48


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Series No 23
Total number of shots 6

Bullet Type: RMR JHP
Powder: BE-86
Weight: 5.5
COAL: 1.125
Primer: CCI 500
Case: Federal

Stats - Average 1195.72 fps
Stats - Highest 1203.92 fps
Stats - Lowest 1178.13 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 25.79 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 9.15 fps

Avg Power Factor 144.69


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Bullet Type: RMR FMJ
Powder: BE-86
Weight: 5.6
COAL: 1.125
Primer: CCI 500
Case: Federal

Stats - Average 1213.91 fps
Stats - Highest 1229.57 fps
Stats - Lowest 1201.81 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 27.76 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 9.15 fps

Avg Power Factor 146.63


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Series No 25
Total number of shots 5

Bullet Type: RMR JHP
Powder: BE-86
Weight: 5.7
COAL: 1.125
Primer: CCI 500
Case: Federal

Stats - Average 1387.8 fps
Stats - Highest 2005.16 fps
Stats - Lowest 1213.5 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 791.66 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 345.62 fps

Avg Power Factor 147.81

 

[Doublehelix]

Finally, I loaded up just 3 loads with the HP-38, but I really liked them, even in the polymer VP9.

They were light shooting, and pretty accurate. I might need to expand this ladder a bit as well to hone in on the best loads with this powder. Today I shot from 4.3 to 4.5 at 1.125". All three of these loads were over Minor PF, yet they felt a lot softer than the BE-86 loads. I plan to work up some loads starting down at 3.7 or 3.8 and see what I get as I go up from there.

Series No 26
Total number of shots 9

Bullet Type: RMR JHP
Powder: HP-38
Weight: 4.3
COAL: 1.125
Primer: CCI 500
Case: Federal

Stats - Average 1083.75 fps
Stats - Highest 1105.93 fps
Stats - Lowest 1057.85 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 48.08 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 17.21 fps

Avg Power Factor 131.67


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Series No 27
Total number of shots 7

Bullet Type: RMR JHP
Powder: HP-38
Weight: 4.4
COAL: 1.125
Primer: CCI 500
Case: Federal

Stats - Average 1103.46 fps
Stats - Highest 1120.29 fps
Stats - Lowest 1085.99 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 34.31 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 13.84 fps

Avg Power Factor 133.78


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Series No 28
Total number of shots 10

Bullet Type: RMR JHP
Powder: HP-38
Weight: 4.5
COAL: 1.125
Primer: CCI 500
Case: Federal

Stats - Average 1116.89 fps
Stats - Highest 1137.82 fps
Stats - Lowest 1105.25 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 32.57 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 9.44 fps

Avg Power Factor 135.28

 

[Doublehelix]

Overall thoughts:

TiteGroup: I am probably biased, but I love TG. These loads shot well and were very accurate.

BE-86: Not a fan so far, but then again I had a screwed up ladder workup that was WAY TOO HOT. It felt very snappy, but then again, I am not surprised considering how hot the loads were. I need to try again with BE-86, and start way down around 4.5 gr. or so and work my way up. I have never been a fan of Power Pistol either, so maybe there is something about these two powders that don't mix with my style or my guns or something. To be fair, today was all my fault, not the powder. I had faulty load data and made a poor workup. I will definitely give it another try and will keep an open mind. I thought it metered fine, but so did TG and HP-38, so there was nothing special there in my mind at least.

HP-38: This powder has always seemed like such a generic powder in that it seems to work "well" in everything, but has never ended up being my favorite for anything (although I am working up some new .45 loads, and I like what I see so far). I was pretty happy with it today however, it was soft shooting even at the high velocities I was shooting at (much softer than BE-86). I am not sure if HP-38 will every be a go-to powder for me, but I certainly don't hate it with these 124 gr RMR JHPs.

 

[Walkalong]

As much as you love TG, with those ES numbers you would have to be way over on Avg FPS to ensure they all met Minor PF.

So the BE-86 loads were not to hot as far as pressure or velocity, just over/way over Minor PF?

W-231 has always been easy to get good accuracy with. Not surprised with your results there.

Have you thought of trying WST or Competition for Minor PF?

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

I just loaded some of these up for my Ruger 9-E. They plunk at 1.095, so that's what I went with. 5.3 grains CFE-Pistol.

 

[Doublehelix]

As much as you love TG, with those ES numbers you would have to be way over on Avg FPS to ensure they all met Minor PF.

Series 14 and 17 had the really bad ES data with TG, and here is the raw data for the initial velocity which the Labradar uses to calculate these numbers. None of the ES numbers were great, but almost always there was one or two shots that were way out of line with the rest of the series, and almost always as one of the last shots in the series. I am not sure if this is an issue with the loads, with TG itself, with my Labradar, my gun, or something else altogether. Here are two examples:

Series 14:
Shot ID V0
1 918
2 929
3 963
4 952
5 943
6 948
7 908
8 936
9 926
10 950
11 602
12 717

Shots 11 and 12 are way out of whack. Take those two shots away, and the ES goes down to 54 instead of 361. Not great, but better.

Series 17:
Shot ID V0
1 971
2 978
3 1002
4 993
5 1013
6 989
7 1187

Again, the last shot is way out of whack. Take that away and the ES goes down to 24 instead of 215.

So the BE-86 loads were not to hot as far as pressure or velocity, just over/way over Minor PF?

I have not really inspected them well yet, but a quick glance at the set today at the range seemed to look "OK". I have a big magnifying glass/light setup on my reloading bench that I use to inspect brass with... as I get older I really need the help! I will check out each load before putting the data to bed.

The highest velocities were up in the mid 1,200's, with one outlier (had to be in error) that read over 2,000 (series 25)! Those speeds were high, but really not that bad. Jake says these bullets like 1,200-1,250 fps, so not an issue. These loads were VERY spanky however and I did not like them. Here is the series from Series 25:

Series 25:
Shot ID V0
1 1214
2 1262
3 1221
4 1237
5 2005!!!!

(Once again, the last shot in the Series is way out of whack.)

W-231 has always been easy to get good accuracy with. Not surprised with your results there.

Have you thought of trying WST or Competition for Minor PF?

It seems like a lot of folks are using WST, and I might want to give that a try. I have had no problems in the past with TG making Minor PF, but this is the first time I have tried TG with the new RMR JHPs.

I am going to go out and do a second set of tests on the BE-86 and HP-38, and if I can find a pound locally, I might try picking up some WST.

 

[Walkalong]

Maybe the chrono was giving you some bad readings. When I get crazy numbers like that I always retest at a later date with different conditions (Sun, Clouds, Lights angle, etc.) Sometimes the conditions cause errors. I have had some runs over the chrono with the same thing, one shot that seems out of whack. I always include it though, and if I think it is a conditions/chrono error, I always recheck.

Could be all it was. Sounds like you have enough experience with TG and 9MM to give you a good idea.

 

[Doublehelix]

Maybe the chrono was giving you some bad readings.

As I mentioned, I should have really analyzed my data a bit better before posting, but instead, I was tired and just sort of data dumped.

I referenced Series 14 above as having those 2 screwy data points on shots 11 & 12 in my post above. Well... it just hit me this morning, I only shot 10 bullets for each series!!! There should not have been any data for shots 11&12!!! What the...? Sheesh, I am such an idiot and was not thinking clearly yesterday obviously.

This is a brand new Labradar, so weather conditions should not affect it, but something is definitely amiss.

I was at an outdoor range, in a bay all by myself, surrounded by 20-foot high berms. There were other shooters at the range which can trigger the LR, and I had the sensitivity setting set for the most sensitive setting since I was missing shots (I think I was firing too fast).

The thing is, if another retort triggers the LR, there is no bullet for the unit to track, so I am not sure where the data comes from.

This sounds like more user error issues with a new chronograph that I need to resolve. I have reanalyzed Series 14 without those 2 final shots, and the data is below. Not a great series, and not the best load, but I did this just to point out how the data has changed by removing those 2 shots from the data. The SD is still at 16 and the ES is still 55, but it is much better than what I showed before.

This just goes to show you that you cannot trust the data at its surface value, and there always has to be some human interpretation.

(Sorry to hijack this thread...)


Series No 14
Total number of shots 12
Bullet Type: RMR JHP
Bullet Weight: 124
Powder: TG
Weight: 3.5
COAL: 1.125
Primer: CCI 500
Case: Federal

Stats - Average 937.30
Stats - Highest 963.00
Stats - Lowest 908.00
Stats - Ext. Spread 55.00
Stats - Std. Dev 16.17
Avg Power Factor 114.89
Shot ID V0
1 918
2 929
3 963
4 952
5 943
6 948
7 908
8 936
9 926
10 950

 

[Walkalong]

Sheesh, I am such an idiot and was not thinking clearly

Been there done that, more than once, it happens.

Hijack? Hey, it's about the new RMR 124 Gr IH JHP, right? If you hijacked it, so did I.

 

[Doublehelix]

I finally got to inspect my brass today, and the only issues I saw were 3 out of 10 of the 5.7 gr. BE-86 brass had the beginnings of primer cratering, but interestingly enough, no flat primers at all. The edges of the primers were all well-rounded like normal.

 

[AV8TOR]

I was looking for a load for USPSA something about 128 PF.


String: 2
Date: 7/23/2017
Time: 10:44:23 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1046
Low Vel: 1003
Ave Vel: 1026
Ext Spread: 43
Std Dev: 16
RMR 124 HP-NEW 4.5 HP38 1.08 OAL
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1003 124.372 276.965
1036 128.464 295.49
1022 126.728 287.558
1025 127.1 289.248
1046 129.704 301.222

Dudedog I was curious if you have loaded the 124gr FN with W231 and if so what your results were. I load my 124's @ 4.5 W231 at 1.08 and was curious. My guess is the two would be very similar as I read that HP38 and 231 are similar and some say even the same.
Thanks

 

[LiveLife]

I read that HP38 and 231 are similar and some say even the same.

One more time. As has been confirmed by Hodgdon customer service and THR members, W231 and HP-38 are same exact powder - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-different-labels.797388/page-4#post-10285765

 

[Walkalong]

Those speeds were high, but really not that bad. Jake says these bullets like 1,200-1,250 fps, so not an issue. These loads were VERY spanky however and I did not like them.

They seem to like 1150ish as well, and recoil is nice.

 

[Dudedog]

Off thread but

I lost my front sight from the dovetail.

I had that issue on my P226 Dark Elite, Rear would not stay tight (adjustable), front fell out.
Can't remember for sure about range trip 3 or 4.
(Sig adjustable "Combat" night sights)

OK, my vision uisn't that great so I have a hard time seeing the sights, but I still need them

Had to go back to Sig. Not a super expensive gun but not cheap. Sights haven't fallen out of any of my other pistols.......

 

[Dudedog]

A few target Pics.
I was trying a new scope mount and scope shooting from a rest to see if that helped.
It did, however I discovered that my cheap plastic folding table is not up to the task of keeping the rest stable on uneven ground,
so the results are not what they could have been if I would have had better support for the rest.
Sig P226, S+B SPs, mixed range brass # of firings unknown, charges as thrown after setting measure.
(target printed on used paper so there is printing on the back, need to recycle that paper)

The bullets will shoot well with medium loads.

PS need to adjust the scope looks like I am low and right, aiming for the center.

 

[vaalpens]

Dudedog, that is some great shooting! With the scope you should now be able to stretch out your testing distance since the target focus should stay the same. At longer distance you will need that stable bench/rest. I just have one of those folding tables from Costco and it seems to work well.

 

[longdayjake]

Some of these groups are amazing! Sorry it has been a while since I checked these forums. We've got some neat stuff going on right now and this bullet is about to really take off in the market. Also, the 69 grain 3GH bullet is almost ready to sell. If things go as we hope, we may be producing .40 and .45 bullets sooner than expected.

 

[Dudedog]

Thanks guys!


OOOohhhh .45 MPRs.....would be sweet
and some for .357 Mag,
probably a bigger market for .40 and .45 than .357.