Rock Island 1911 vs. Taurus pt1911

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It may just be a rumor, but I've heard twice now from different sources that the RIA/Armscor plant in the Philippines got some of their machinery and dies from an old Colt plant here in the USA. I'm not saying that RIA 1911s are OMG TOTALLY COLTS!!! It's just an interesting fact, if true.

I have nothing against Taurus or South American guns in general. I own a few Bersas (Argentina) that have been lovely to me, and I've seen a couple of Taurus revolvers that were solid and reliable, but they were a bit less smooth than the S&Ws that they copied, internally speaking. They were also priced too close to the "real thing" (S&W) to make it worth buying them. If Taurus revolvers were just a LITTLE bit less expensive than they are, then the price gap between them and S&W revolvers would be wide enough to make me buy a Taurus. I've never tried a Taurus auto.

My 1911 is kinda Brazilian... the frame (and possibly other parts, but I don't know for sure) was made by Imbel in Brazil. For what it's worth, my partially Brazilian Springfield Armory 1911 didn't make me happy until after I sent it back to SA for repairs. Maybe that's why I'm inclined to recommend the Philippine RIA over the Brazilian Taurus.
 
I'm certainly in a minority. I bought a PT1911 about 2 years ago and really like the pistol. For all the legendary Taurus failures I haven't had anything go wrong with the pistol. It is darn easy to shoot accurately up to 25 yards. Past that I can't say, never tried it.

I didn't like the grips, so for $20 I fixed that major Taurus problem. If I were in the market for another 1911, I'd seriously consider a Taurus. I've also looked at the RIA and the Springer Mil-Spec and would consider them because I have a Taurus.
 
On the satin nickel, call Sarco first, if they don't have any in stock then call Bellshire Hardware in Nashville Tennessee. Ask for Phil, He can help you out. Good luck.:)

Again, Welcome to THR.
 
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If price is not an issue get the PT1911. If customer service in the future is a concern get the RIA. If you pretty much wanted the RIA line get the lowest end STI 1911, STI have partnered with RIA but according to STI quality standards, not that theres something wrong with RIA QC.

I do still believe Taurus has a tougher QC compared to RIA. Taurus being made in Brazil is more in line with competing with SA's over-all quality.

Now the question is the PT1911s key-lock safety :mad:. If your okey with that then go for it. But if you have every intention to hotrod a 1911 get the NORINCO, tougher than anything else out there.

Goodluck anyway.
 
I do still believe Taurus has a tougher QC compared to RIA. Taurus being made in Brazil is more in line with competing with SA's over-all quality.
Click to expand...

For a lot of us SA owners, that isn't a good argument in favor of Taurus. We've all heard about how great SA customer service is. The only reason we know that is because we've had to use it. :)
 
I have owned multiple copies of both, and this decision (like most things in life) is not black-n-white. Here's my take, first with the easy stuff.

The RIA has MIM bits in it. The Taurus has MIM bits in it. No clear winner...

The Taurus has a firing pin safety. The RIA does not. I value the firing pin safety in a carry gun, not so much in a range gun. Your call.

The Taurus frame is forged. The RIA frame is cast. I value the forged frame.

The RIA frame is not nearly as well-finished as the Taurus; I've had four RIAs and they all had poor machine work in the frame just in front of the bed and two of them would not accept USGI recoil spring guide rods without fitting (narrowing the guide rod flange). The RIA frame dimensions are also not held nearly as closely to spec as are the Taurus; cross-pin locations and dimensions will vary slightly from pistol to pistol and make fitting replacement bits more difficult.

In the end, the Taurus is actually a better made piece, but with MIM bits that have reportedly (on the Internet :) ) somewhat suspect reliability when compared to the RIA. The RIA is not as well made, but they're reported to suffer less bits breakages.

If I wanted a pistol that I would not modify (other than maybe grips) and that I would use at the range and not for carry purposes, I would get the RIA. If I wanted a pistol to make in my own image over time or was set on this as a carry pistol, I would get the Taurus (for it's higher frame quality and firing pin safety). If I bought another Taurus, the first thing I'd do is replace the sear and hammer and disconnector with billet bits.

One side note - stay away from the RIA nickel finish if you intend to either shoot it a lot or do any changes to the pistol. It's not that durable, and it does not allow 'fitting' to be done the way that blued metal can be fitted and reblued.

Oh, and another side note - every RIA I've bought had a fine film of grit on it and needed to be flushed and lubed before using it. Weird. The latest ones (and the ones with Citadel rollmarked on the side instead of Rock Island) are DRIPPING in shipping lube and really need a cleanup before use.
 
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>>>For a lot of us SA owners, that isn't a good argument in favor of Taurus. We've all heard about how great SA customer service is. The only reason we know that is because we've had to use it.<<<

Too bad if thats the case. But im still leaning towards TAURUS. With Brazil in the spot as base of manufacture for two major competing firearms company, for me that is something.
 
rbernie - what makes the satin nickle finish on an RIA less durable then other guns with the same finish?
 
I own the Taurus but I looked at RIAs as well before making my decision. Both of the versions, Taurus and RIA, have very poor finishes. But what sold me was the way they felt, especially when you rack the slide. The fit and solid feel was a lot more evident in the Taurus than in the RIA. The slide was tighter in the Taurus. The RIAs I handled hand some play in the slide. I would say that neither are perfect. They both have their drawbacks. My Taurus had a broken safety which is very common for them. I sent it back and got it fixed for free. Taurus paid the shipping both ways. Their customer service was great in my case. They returned the gun in a decent amount of time.

The decision I made was the Taurus over the RIA. If I had it to do over again, I would have held out for the stainless Taurus. If you like stainless, I would easily pick that over the satin nickel RIA model. Also, don't know if it matters, but Taurus has the tactical rail option. Not sure if RIA does.
 
+1 with rbernie

Denscity, if you're really looking into getting a 1911 that is at least a "good start" look into 1911's that are forged and not cast. Don't let anybody tell you that "cast is just as good as forged" that's BS. Sure some companies do pretty good casts that can take alot of abuse, but that still doesn't change the fact that forging is the way to make metal the strongest. It's alot more expensive hence why lower end pistol manufacturers almost always use cast recievers and slides since it saves on cost big time. The internet is repleat with pics of cracked frames and slides. heck even forged recievers and slides crack and break, but cast recievers tend to do so even earlier than a forged one will. If I were going to be buying this as a carry gun, I'd insist on forged. If this is a just a plinking, never will carry, depend-my-life-on-it-gun, then I wouldn't hesitate buying the RIA.
 
Don't stop at one 1911. Get yourself a few "entry level" models! After you've handled the STI, RIA/Armscor, SA, and Taurus models, sell the one(s) you hate. :)

If only it weren't for that pesky money issue...
 
Go with the Rock

Hi
I have a Rock Island and it has been great. It is the standard Mil spec without the frills. I bought it last fall for $380. The only issue I have ever had with it has been with magazines. Mine didn't like the Novak mag it came with. Use Wilson Combat Mags. MOST 1911s like Wilson Mags. They are a little more expensive, but well worth it. Mine doesn't even bite me but I have small hands. Use the money you will save when you buy the Rock to get into reloading-you have to feed it. I have never fired the Taurus PT1911, but I have held it. The model I picked up was too light. Heavier pistols absorb felt recoil. That is not to say that the Taurus is not well made. I have fired Taurus revolvers in the past (including the Judge) and they were top notch. I am sure that their 1911 is great as well, but you just can't beat the price and quality of the Rock.

1200 rounds (800 reloaded)
No problems after the standard 500 round break in period of a 1911 and switching to Wilson Mags.
 
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One thing to consider and someone correct me if I am wrong. I have been told that upgrade parts are harder to fit to the Taurus. The RIA being GI spec will take aftermarket parts more readily. If true one thing to look at.
I have 1911's from both of these companies and both are great guns for the money.
 
Is the Taurus not mil-spec? I haven't heard of this. :confused:

Even if it is true, not all aftermarket parts for 1911s are "drop-in". Some require some hand fitting no matter what the manufacturer.
 
I have 2 of the satin framed RIA Bi-Tone FS, Love Em!, Haven't had any problems with the finish on either. No internals / shooting problems. Clean them after every range session. Approx. 3000 + rounds in each. Dead on on both at 25 yards. Only change was the Mags, went with Chip Mc Cormicks (Mostly for the Bumpers). Factory Mags still work fine. As for the MIM parts and Cast vs. Forged. In my book that's a weak argument. Every pistol now a days have something "wrong" in them (opinions). What's the next argument Cast / Forged Steel vs. Plastic / Polymer and don't forget the MIM"s? What's the lifetime on Plastic / polymer pistols? Now there's a good thread. What i'm really trying to say, there's always someones "negative" opinion on everything. Both pistols will work fine in their respective use intentions. I went through the same about 6 months ago, Taurus vs. Sa. vs. RIA. Well, i decided on a SA. Mil-Spec. and bought my first RIA about a month later just for seeing the difference. (My friend had a Taurus PT1911) already tried it. Well, I kept the SA, and Bought another RIA. Please don't get the wrong idea, i'm not ranting or anything. It's alway's a hard decision for a "first" handgun. Good luck in your decision.

Ps. My friend with the Taurus traded it in on a RIA Tactical.
 

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There has to be some amount of weight to the forged vs cast argument. You don't see many Baers, Kimbers, Colts, etc with cast frames. With companies always looking at ways to keep their costs down, you'd think that if there wasn't much of a difference between the two then you'd see cast frames on higher end models as well.

For me, the proof is in the pudding so to speak.
 
Neither

Go with an STI Spartan
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I second this (assuming you can find a Spartan in your price range)

Its built on the same Armscor frame that the RIA is built on, but its assembled by the good folk at STI (and the internals are STI). There's a good reason people spend over two grand for an STI.
 
I'd agree with the STI also. (if you have that kind of money). But there's an alternative. The RIA Citidel. (same as the STI). but in that price range, Custom is the way to go. i.e. Night Hawk, Caspain, Colt custom shop, SA custom shop there's alot of high-end's. But let's keep in mind the OP does not want to spend over $600.00. Best bang for the buck- RIA. Lifetime warranty and GOOD cs.
 
I've also heard those are great, but you'd better check on ammo availability first. .38 Super isn't very common, might cost more than you'd like too. When WWB .45 auto was common, WalMart had stacks of it for $29.98/100. Never saw any .38 Super there.

But, everyone says that 1911's in that caliber are awesome shooters.
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When I get back to work, I'll be getting one. Ammunition cost is a non-issue for me. I reload for EVERY centerfire handgun caliber I have, and .38 Super will be no exception. I'm sure that SOMEWHERE, I can find several magazines worth of .38 Super defensive ammunition for carry. That's all the factory ammunition I need.
 
Olympus, What i'm getting at is the Price's. I'm a steel person. I will never own a Plastic pistol, so, cast vs. forged makes no difference to me. I love shooting against the "high Dollar" 1911's and kick their butts at 25 yards off-handed. I shoot against Kimber's, Colt's, Nighthawk's, STI's, Caspain, etc. on a weekly basis with my RIA's and SA Milspec.. When you look at the targets- no difference!, Yes, i would like to own a "top-notch" 1911 someday, (mostly as a hand-me-down to my grand-son). But this thread was started for a beginner with a budget. $600.00. All we need to do is give the OP a Honest "opinion" for his choice.
 
I understand. And I posted earlier on what my opinion was. I understand you were answering what the OP was asking. You also commented on what rbernie said concerning cast vs forged frames.
As for the MIM parts and Cast vs. Forged. In my book that's a weak argument.
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My comments afterwards were specifically addressing what you said. I'm not telling the OP to buy a Baer, Kimber or Colt and I'm not saying to go above his budget. I only mentioned high end 1911s as proof that their might be more to the cast vs forged argument. The OP might want to give more thought to whether or not that was important to him. I'm not saying there is or isn't. What I said is that you typically see forged frames on higher end guns and cast frames on lower end models. If I'm comparing two different pistols in the same price range, the one that has more features similar to a higher end model might be more appealing to someone. That's the point I was trying to make.
 
i would love a $1000+ 1911, but i wont spend it. to tell you the truth, i wont spend that much on any gun, accept maybe an AR. In general, i have a great love for simple machines that work and are rugged. im big on AK's, CZ's, and other proven rugged weapons.

it's a hobby to me but theres a limit at what i would spend on a weapon... there are many 600ish guns that will accurately put a whole in paper, or a person.

I really appreciate all the help thus far, im thinking RIA. Although id like a satin nickle so maybe i'll have to wait and look around.

Thanks for all the help thus far.
 
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