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Rock River Tactical Operator 2 - Good Enough?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Mr.Blue, Jan 1, 2012.

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  1. Mr.Blue

    Mr.Blue Member

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    I have been thinking of upgrading my M4 to either a Colt 6920 Magpul Sporter or a Daniel Defense V2. To do so, I'd have to trade in 3 guns for one.

    I would use my M4 for range practice and possibly my SHTF/Civil unrest rifle.

    My RRA has been very durable so far. It is not Mil-Spec, but seems to be built pretty well. The barrel is not chrome lined, but that is probably why it is so accurate. As promised by RRA, it is easily 1MOA or better. The only negative with the rifle is it's a little heavy for a carbine, at 8lbs..

    For my purposes, do you think an upgrade is worth it? I like the supposed added durability of a Mil Spec weapon, but know I will lose some accuracy.

    BTW, my other SHTF rifle is a Stainless Ruger Gunsite Scout fitted with a quick detach Leupold scout scope. That said, the M4 would be my first choice.
     
  2. kfgk14

    kfgk14 Member

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    I'd say get A DDM4V7 (light, modular, mid-length gas for reliability/easy on parts, etc.). They cost about $1200 shipped through dealers.
    Or just rebuild the RRA (scrap everything but the lower/LPK).
    Are you in the mid-west? Rockies? or on the east coast? The more important question: what's the longest viable shot you could take on your property?
    Either way, you want to end up with a mil-spec rifle.
    Colt 6920 is a very good buy as well.
    YMMV.
     
  3. RoboDuck

    RoboDuck Member

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    I don't see any problems with RRA rifles. They offer a lifetime warranty IIRC. Any rifle can suffer a stoppage due to parts failure. You might be better served in purchasing an armorers manual firing pin & retaining pin. extractor & extractor spring too, ejector & ejector spring, a sear spring and sear and gas ring set.
     
  4. proven

    proven Member

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    if the m4 will be your go to weapon, i'd make sure that you can have absolute confidence in it. the colt and DD provide that for me. it's up to you to decide if that rock river does for you.
     
  5. ms6852

    ms6852 Member

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    If "SHTF" I doubt that you would notice 8lbs with all the adrenaline flowing. I would keep what I already have and am accustomed too. You are already familar with your weapons limitation. Is it really worth giving up for 1.5 lbs.
     
  6. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe just get an HPT/MPI bolt, and a lighter handguard for your RRA if you want to somewhat increase reliability, and save weight. Otherwise, use what you have for now, and save up for a BCM, LMT, or other top tier upper to put on your RRA lower.
     
  7. Sergeant Sabre

    Sergeant Sabre Member

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    Unless you're taking your rifle into harms way intentionally, your RRA will be just fine.
     
  8. rskent

    rskent Member

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    What is the round count on your rock river? They have a reputation for being a solid reliable rifle.
    I would stock up on ammo and shoot it till it breaks before I replace anything.
     
  9. wnycollector

    wnycollector Member

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    +1 on this. My RRA ATH has as many rounds through it as my mil spec BCM middy...and both of them are flawless in thousands of rounds. If SHTF, I would have zero problem grabbing the RRA since it is much more accurate.
     
  10. mossy424

    mossy424 Member

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    I have a rra entry operator 2 and it runs flawless. I have put just over 500 rounds threw it and have never had an issue. I would trust my life with it.
     
  11. nathan

    nathan Member

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    If it s not top tier , its not suited for the end of days scenario? Unless you are in combat the likes of Afghanistan then you need something made for that purpose. Themain thing is reliability when every squeeze of the trigger gives a bang. RRA should be fine so long as you use quality ammo and have tested it s reliability.
     
  12. Waywatcher

    Waywatcher Member

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    If it is reliable and accurate in your usage, and planned usage, keep the RRA.

    I feel great with my DPMS Bull 20; it fits my usage profile perfectly. I shoot from a bench 90% of the time. If something breaks I will replace it; but I have had no malfunctions of any type, and I'm up to 600 rounds. I prefer the tighter .223 chamber for my usage. I have personally had too many bad experiences with other guns malfunctioning to get rid of a perfectly functioning DPMS for something that someone else tells me is better.

    What I'm getting at, is you need to decide for yourself if you feel confident in your rifle, for your use. Sites like M4carbine.net are great troves of information but it is easily forgotten there that ARs are perfectly acceptable in non-fighting roles as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2012
  13. Mr.Blue

    Mr.Blue Member

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    Thanks. I guess I let AR snobs convince me that my RRA is not good enough.
     
  14. Captains1911

    Captains1911 Member

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    The RRA is fine until the trigger craps out. I'd sell it for something better, but that's just me. If its just a range toy then it doesn't matter.
     
  15. Sergeant Sabre

    Sergeant Sabre Member

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    Lemme guess: They told you your rifle doesn't have an HPT/MPI bolt, doesn't have the M-16 bolt carrier, and is only a 1:9 twist, so it's no good, right?

    Well, no, RRA doesn't individually HPT/MPI test bolts. They are batch tested. Does this result in a generally weaker bolt? There's no way to tell. There is a Department of Defense brief that says most bolts will develop cracks at 3,000 rounds, and all bolts by 6,000 rounds. Bolt failure occurs at an unpredictable time thereafter. Having a bolt that is HPT/MPI tested to make sure it's crack-free at the start would mean said bolt would likely fail at the higher end of that round count rather than the lower. Really, I would think unless you're planning on firing thousands of rounds in training and protracted firefights (like a military application), or taking a number of carbine classes totaling several thousand rounds, you'll be just fine.

    RRA doesn't have the M-16, full-auto bolt carrier. It has a semi-auto bolt carrier. What does this mean? The full-auto carrier is slightly heavier, reducing carrier velocity. So? If your rifle functions reliably, this is not a concern.

    Nope, your RRA doesn't have the currently in-vogue 1:7 twist. I say "big deal" to this. Your 1:9 twist will stabilize up to and including a 75gr bullet, typically. (Actually stabilization depends on bullet length, but generally bullets of a given weight are about the same length). My 1:9 RRA stabilizes 75gr. Hornady TAP OTM bullets just fine. The only bullets your 1:9 RRA won't stabilize are the 77gr Sierra Match King, 70gr. Barnes TSX, the very few 80gr match bullets, and the experimental 100gr OTM made for the military (that you can't get anyway). So what? The contemporary wisdom is for a barrier-penetrating load, and all of those are in the 50-62gr range anyway.

    It's true your RRA doesn't have some of the features, like the ones above, that are ideal in AR-15 carbines. However, as I outlined above, those features won't benefit you very much. Upgrading to a carbine with the above features will cost hundreds of dollars. So, is it worth it? I don't know. Is it worth it to you?
     
  16. proven

    proven Member

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    can you cite a source or provide a link to the DOD brief you mention? i hadn't heard of that.
     
  17. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    How many pallets of 5.56 do you have in storage right now?

    Is there a guaranteed source of potable water on your property that can supply about 25 gallons daily?

    Do you have an alternate power source for long term use for cooking, like a 1000 gallon propane tank on the property?

    Have you done a security survey and identified all the avenues of approach, likely entry points, sectors of fire, located firing points, prepared firing aperatures, and covered what to do for the dead zones gunfire can't reach into?

    SHTF is an internet fantasy when all anyone discusses is what parts in their gun might fail, shooting ammo they don't have, in an unsecured defensive position that can be easily defeated. Carbine courses are useless when what is really needed is a three year enlistment Infantry. 99% of the SHTF posters will never shoot their gun enough to need to replace their bolt, and certainly won't even have a 30 day supply of defensive munitions in the house.

    And don't tell us and the BATF if you do. Need to know, right?
     
  18. Kingcreek

    Kingcreek Member

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    Amen, Brother Tirod.
     
  19. Captains1911

    Captains1911 Member

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    I think SHTF means different things to different people. To me it means any scenario where I may have to use my firearms to protect the safety of myself and those around me. This could be anything from a home invasion to an alien invasion (that's a joke). In either situation I want the most reliable and dependable equipment I can get my hands on, RRA is not it.

    P.S. how the hell do you quote in this forum?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
  20. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    RRA lowers are fine, and the lower of an AR isn't a highly stressed part. It's the upper that matters. If you're concerned about it, in order of increasing cost, you could:

    • replace the bolt (but not the carrier) with a Bravo Company bolt ($70) and have an AR-15 armorer torque and stake your existing gas key screws using the proper fixture.

    • replace the bolt carrier group with a Bravo Company bolt carrier group, $140.

    • buy a BCM upper receiver, $490. (Look for a 5.56x45mm chamber, chrome lined, and ideally a 1:7 twist, although unlined barrels are fine from a reliability standpoint.)

    As far as the lower, just make sure the castle nut that holds the receiver extension in place is properly staked (my RRA's wasn't, but it's an easy job to do with a small punch and some patience).

    If you are concerned about trigger group durability, you could pick up a spare basic milspec trigger group and just keep it in reserve, since the RRA's trigger pull is much better than milspec. Or, if you have lots of spare cash, upgrade to a Geissele SSA.

    One accessory that I really like is the BCM "Gunfighter" charging handle, which makes it a lot easier to charge the rifle with the left hand. It's not necessary from a durability standpoint, but I have one on my RRA (the "Mod 3" medium version, not the huge one) and it's really handy.

    Also, for a defensive rifle, look into a way to mount a light if you don't already have one. I have an inexpensive CAA rail set on the front sight tower of mine, and it works fine while being much cheaper than a full rail setup:

    [​IMG]

    If you have JavaScript turned on, you can insert quote tags by clicking the cartoon "speech balloon" in the message-function icons above the text box (text styles, color, link, picture, quote). If JavaScript is off, you can do it manually by typing "[ quote ] text to be quoted here [ /quote ]" except without the spaces.
     
  21. chad1043

    chad1043 Member

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    Run what you have until it breaks, then replace it with what you think you need. I would say learn the platform as much as possible. Having a "lower tier" weapon doesn't make it perform any different than a so-called "tier 1" weapon. Shoot it, clean it, shoot it some more.
     
  22. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

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    If having "top of the line" is important to you then sell it and get a Colt. If it isn't make sure everything is properly staked and then buy a mil spec bolt and keep yours as a spare. If it doesn't have one already a heavy buffer may not be a bad investment.
     
  23. Sergeant Sabre

    Sergeant Sabre Member

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    Here ya go, on page 44: www.dtic.mil/ndia/2006smallarms/taylor.pdf

    I was a touch off with the numbers I cited.
     
  24. Sergeant Sabre

    Sergeant Sabre Member

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    You're dead wrong about the carbine courses. DEAD wrong. Military training is not the cutting-edge of CQB tactics, to say the least. There was a thread about this very issue recently on m4carbine.net. A moderator there summed things up perfectly:


    From: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=96009

    The young Marine quoted below can attest perfectly to the above, and in fact does in an article he wrote for SWAT Magazine, and subsequently posted for all to read on m4carbine.net.

    The full article: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=38540
    So, in short: If you want to learn how to use a carbine in a CQB environment, whether you are military, police, or civilian, go to a good carbine class
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  25. helotaxi

    helotaxi Member

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    Saying anything with regard to combat with "complete confidence" is nothing but overconfidence.
     
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