Rogers and Spencer, finally

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I believe the roger and spencer has a gas ring. If so, does it work well with eliminating cylinder binding?

Yes. I have shot an 8 stage CAS match with a pair of R&S without having to disassemble to clean. I will spray a little Ballistol down the barrel and on the arbor pin, but they are definitely not binders.
 
It’s just a bushing, see photo, and as it sets the cylinder face back away from the down wash of the gas it does cut down in the amount of soot moving back along the base pin.
Ruger improved on this by milling a ring on the bushing.
 

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I just got back from the range with the R&S. This is the first time at the range in several months due to medical restrictions and I was pretty shaky. The load was about 25 grs. 3F Goex, a lubed felt wad and a .454 ball with CCI #11 caps.

A few observations:
- The Ted Cash snail shape capper worked great.
- The gun shot slightly low. Probably my fault.
- The previous owner said to use a .457 round ball. I was afraid that would strain the ram so went with .454. That was a mistake. It shaved a tiny ring of lead but less than I like. Next session will have .457 balls. That may tighten up the groups, I hope.
- I was shooting with a two hand grip, off hand, at 25 yards. I have bigger than average hands but the grip and balance were good. I was able to keep some 3 inch groups which pleased me considering a new-to-me gun and not in fighting trim. It's clear the R&S is capable of serious accuracy.
- After 48 rounds there was no binding or stiffness from fouling. Also, the caps stayed put and didn't jam the works. The R&S reputation for reliability is well deserved. Usually I only get that reliable performance with the Ruger Old Army.

Now I understand why these Rogers and Spencer revolvers repros are so popular. This is a serious addition to my collection of C&B guns.

BTW, There were several other shooters on the line today with modern guns. Like me, they were all members of the white beard club. The aroma of BP smoke brought out smiles and pleasant conversation.

Jeff
 
A few observations:
- The Ted Cash snail shape capper worked great.
- The gun shot slightly low. Probably my fault.
- The previous owner said to use a .457 round ball. I was afraid that would strain the ram so went with .454. That was a mistake. It shaved a tiny ring of lead but less than I like. Next session will have .457 balls. That may tighten up the groups, I hope.
- I was shooting with a two hand grip, off hand, at 25 yards. I have bigger than average hands but the grip and balance were good. I was able to keep some 3 inch groups which pleased me considering a new-to-me gun and not in fighting trim. It's clear the R&S is capable of serious accuracy.
- After 48 rounds there was no binding or stiffness from fouling. Also, the caps stayed put and didn't jam the works. The R&S reputation for reliability is well deserved. Usually I only get that reliable performance with the Ruger Old Army.

Now I understand why these Rogers and Spencer revolvers repros are so popular. This is a serious addition to my collection of C&B guns.

BTW, There were several other shooters on the line today with modern guns. Like me, they were all members of the white beard club. The aroma of BP smoke brought out smiles and pleasant conversation.

Jeff

The. 457 balls, which I also use, do put an awful strain on the loading arm and with the paucity of spare parts, I don't like to do that. So I load off the revolver and take the worry out of the equation. I have a well made loading arm/stand - no idea who the heck made it - that makes it all much easier, but loading off the gun is definitely low stress on parts.
 
@BullRunBear

I agree with the other posters about .454 vs. .457 balls. In my experience, the .457s were a lot harder to load in my EOA Rogers & Spencer. I get good accuracy with .454s. For me, the limiting factor is the sights.

In mine I generally shoot 28 - 30 grains of 3Fg, a home made felt wad, and a .454 ball, sparked with a Remington No.10 cap.
 
I have one and the lock up on it is like a bank vault with either the regular or cartridge conversion cylinder. I should get out and shoot it more than I do.
 
This is a great thread and all but there comes a time for disassembly for cleaning inspections, repair, parts replacement, etc... It has come to my attention that these guns are unique regarding the tiny screw slots on the side screws that hold the grip frame to the frame from most (?????) other guns which accept the smallest hollow ground screw driver on up in a decently stocked Brownells kit. Not so with the Rogers and Spencer (too thick [size 120-3] 0.120 diam 0.030 thickness won't fit slot.) Yes I know it should be a bigger diameter but I checked the smallest to be sure (too thick.)

Can someone comment on the size and availability of this screwdriver head or screwdriver. Do these guns have any other surprises for the average layman who needs to take it apart. I have seen some youtube videos and they are good except for the fact that it is assumed everyone knows about and has all the tools needed.

Why is Brownells website such a wonderful wild mystery tour full of riddles with no answers as to the use and purpose of the things they sell. Specs for driver sets are listed but it's not quite clear if they have any other types of driver bits or sets that are smaller anywhere on their site. Woops thats off topic.

Inquiring minds want to know. Tell us more about your R&S experience.

OK I will speculate. Feel free to correct me.

I just now found this on Brownells magical mystery tour standard Brownells driver handle not included. It looks like it may be the right size. I did have to do a bit of manual browsing to find it. Why not list all these thing in size order on some part of the site ? I don't know. Small and thin maybe 2 or 3 should suffice just in case. What do you think? Why didn't they just throw it in their upper tier driver bit set ? Don't people buy these type of sets to avoid this kind of surprise shopping in the first place ? I don't think they would mind paying another whopping 4 bucks for it.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...85-0-sd-5-64-allen-sku080185000-501-1960.aspx

ITEM DETAILS

Bit Number: 445-00

Blade Diameter: .138

Blade Thickness: .028

Style: Hollow Ground

Made in the USA

080-445-002WB
Bit #445-00, SD=.138, BT=.028

Mfr Part: 44500

Geez whats with the cheezy pop ups even at every stage of checkout how annoying. Putting a big conspicuous help menu click for all to see at the side out of the way instead would be adequate.

That said I think this MAY be the perfect fit. If I find out I will let you know unless someone else beats me to it. :):):)

Hmmm other observations. Cocking the hammer the first 3/4 of the way seems to be firm but manageable however that last small final 1/4 of the way to full cock is on the strong side, almost stiff, and takes getting used to.

It is a shorter hammer pull but despite that it seems to feel like a real cap smasher :D:D:D
 
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I believe the roger and spencer has a gas ring. If so, does it work well with eliminating cylinder binding?
Yes, the Rogers & Spencer has a gas ring. And yes, it works beautifully. I have never run any type of endurance test, but after 40/50 rounds the cylinder is still spinning freely. I have four Euroarms manufactured guns and they all run the same.
 
Gordon,
Thanks for posting the link to the R&S auction. I hope someone here can take advantage of it. Since I now have my own R&S, several Ruger Old Army, the usual bunch of Colts and Remingtons and a few single shot pistols, I'm staying away from the auction.

Now and then I realize I'm drowning in riches. :D

Jeff
 
First off none of the Brownells bits are thin enough for the screws on this Euroarms revolver. The thinest (0.030) while it may partially fit some of the bigger screws does not go all way down into the slot. Maybe some day under the rainbow ordered Brownells thinner bits may finally slowly chugg their way to a mailbox. A this time I don't even know if they will be thin enough. Meanwhile ....................

It turns out that Chapamans smallest bit (0.125" x 0.023") in their gunsmith/sewing machine screwdriver kits fit the grip frame screws. The diameter could be a little wider ideally but it sufficed when used with care (a lot of care) on a tight screw and fine with normally torqued screws of that size. The same size bit although it fit into the slot well buggered the tightly fit hammer screw. The diameter was not wide enough. Damage was not enough to make the hammer screw unusable and carefully filing down the buggered portion created a sort of artwork like looking silver swirl. The other bit in the kit, although a thickness that would fit (0.025",) was too wide a diameter (0.190') and would scratch the frame around it even if it did go deep enough in the slot to work. I didn't even think of trying to use it.

This screw needed a bubba home custom screwdriver made by filing a broken Grace screwdriver down to the proper size which was time consuming but once done removed the hammer screw with no problem. The Grace screwdriver set has the distinction of having the brittle tips breaking off at some time or another on EVERY ONE of them during NORMAL USE. Judging from the work and feel when filing down one of these screwdrivers I think after snapping off the brittle tips there is quality steel left over. The litmus test was it did not break when used with moderate torque. A custom set can be made out of all of them when the rotary tool grinding bits come in. Hand filing all of them would not be a pleasant task. They should call it the Grace Kit Screwdriver Kit rather than screwdriver set.

The youtube vid on assembly was alright but instead of trying to squeeze everything together with your hand I would recommend before taking it apart remove the grips and tie down or duct tape the hammer spring against the frame in the flexed position after fully cocking the hammer then lower the hammer and start unscrewing. This removes all tension from the grip and front trigger guard screws. Needle nose vise grips with cloth wrapped around frame and hammer spring worked but in retrospect that was risky because the grip frame can be scratched or gouged if something went wrong. I am thinking paracord if not duct tape should be fool proof.

For reassembly after tightening all the screws remove the cord or duct tape and the hammer spring should rest under the hammer where it belongs. then reinstall the wood grips.

Hammer spring had some hard black carbon stuff all over it and a lot of pits. This was not corrosion it was just crude final finish as is. They did not bother to sand and. polish out the metals imperfections. The imperfections and black oxide ,most of it, not all, were filed out and the square edges of the main spring rounded then cleaned and oiled before being put back in. Parts were all right somewhat a little raw. Black dirty grease was cleaned out and ballistol applied to all moving parts as well as the usual barrel and cylinder cleaning. I have to admit despite being dirty that grease did a good job of preserving the metal. After all was done action was smoother and less stiff, but only a little less stiff. That mainspring is strong.

All in all for a pre CNC product they did a good job. I do appreciate the skill required to make this work. Despite the cut corners it's not a bad quality gun at all. Trigger pull is excellent. It is a borderline hair trigger so one must be mindful of that.

When dremel bits are on hand maybe further mainspring refinement, polishing, as well as parts sanding and polishing and other things can be done but for now it's not bad.

I am not fond of the polished glossy grips but I am weighing in function vs looks and feel. While a fine sanding with linseed oil finish may look and will feel better in the hand, it will not stand up to dirt and grime anywhere near as good as the current hard gloss finish.

For now lets leave it as is.
 
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I have the Brownells thin bit set and yes, they are thin enough to work correctly on a Euroarms Rogers & Spencer.
 
Brownells thin bit set ? What is that ? Are they thinner than 0.030" ? I would like to get if it is. I did read that Brownells has new "update" to their older "thinner bit kit". The update is all thicker bits and they provide a drilled out wood base to put the older thinner bits in. I don't know the whole story behind this change and "upgrade".

They also have a $300.00 set with a whole lot of bits but it is listed as sold out. I don't know if the right size is in that. It is costly but if it's quality and solves problems like this it might be worth it if moderate to high use is anticipated. I found that via a link provided by another website talking about it. Finding stuff on Brownells is unfortunately not as straightforward as it should be.
 
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In NYC that would make one subject to being charged with handgun possession, felony possession if you have the ammunition unless you register it and get a license. A cap and ball revolver without any loading components (caps, balls, conicals, powder etc..) is perfectly legal without registration or license.
 
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Brownells thin bit set ? What is that ? Are they thinner than 0.030" ? I would like to get if it is. I did read that Brownells has new "update" to their older "thinner bit kit". The update is all thicker bits and they provide a drilled out wood base to put the older thinner bits in. I don't know the whole story behind this change and "upgrade".

They also have a $300.00 set with a whole lot of bits but it is listed as sold out. I don't know if the right size is in that. It is costly but if it's quality and solves problems like this it might be worth it if moderate to high use is anticipated. I found that via a link provided by another website talking about it. Finding stuff on Brownells is unfortunately not as straightforward as it should be.
I bought the Brownells Magna-Tip Thin-Bit set about 15 years ago. It was listed as part #080-120-000. There are 18 bits and all blade thickness were either .020 or .025. The bits were in a nice wooden block which was inside a clear plastic box. Haven't had to use it too much, but when you need it you really need it.
 
I bought the Brownells Magna-Tip Thin-Bit set about 15 years ago. It was listed as part #080-120-000. There are 18 bits and all blade thickness were either .020 or .025. The bits were in a nice wooden block which was inside a clear plastic box. Haven't had to use it too much, but when you need it you really need it.

They still sell it for $50.89. It's out of stock so I got a backorder wait. It says it's for thin slots encountered on "European Guns" With a name like Euroarms I think it fits the bill. When will it come in ? I don't know.

Why does Brownells do this to themselves. They must drive away a lot of customers with their vague buggy website. I wonder it their website designer/designers are the same as the ones that work for the huge meglamaniac websites that happen to also push antigun policies.
 
I hope somebody here would want that cherry Euroarms enough to bid $500 and win it ! I can't find a ROA for $500 , after all :)
 
I hope somebody here would want that cherry Euroarms enough to bid $500 and win it ! I can't find a ROA for $500 , after all :)
I was at a gun show in PA last year and there was a NIB Euroarms Rogers & Spencer for $400. I frequent Dixon's Muzzleloading Shop in Kempton PA and they get a lot of used guns turned in. Two years ago I found a lightly used Euroarms for $350. I was lucky as they had just received the gun the previous evening and I showed up an hour after they opened in the morning.
 
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