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Rogers and Spencer misfire

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by sandy4570, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. Old Stumpy

    Old Stumpy Member

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    I don't own a R & S either but I found the mainsprings on my Euroarms and Pietta Remingtons to be stiff enough that I found it really annoying. I have no interest in competition, and I'm not fussy, but I thinned down the springs some anyway.

    Incidentally, I ran across a thread somewhere where a shooter says that you can direct substitute a Uberti Cattleman mainspring into a Remington for a suitable medium strength mainspring. I owned a Uberti Cattleman .45 Colt once, and in this revolver at least, the mainspring pressure was just right.
     
  2. Old Stumpy

    Old Stumpy Member

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    Might work. Might be a little bit of a PITA to make those shims though.
    If it did work, then the OP could measure the existing nipples and check Track of the Wolf for what's available. They usually supply the length and thread size and the guns that the nipple will fit.
    There might be nipples that are a hair longer that will work.
     
  3. whughett

    whughett Member

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    So what’s the explanation for a gun, my Remington Revolving Carbine, for instance, firing all 6 one load, 5 or less on others. A shooting session of 96 shots may result in a 5% or so of failure to fire on first strike, and 100% firing on second strike.
     
  4. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    100% on second strike indicates suitable hammer /nipple relationship. Intermittent ignition points to hammer impedance (as long as loading sequence is consistent). More likely than not, it's a stiff bolt arm with ill transition to a too tall cam surface.

    Mike
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  5. Old Stumpy

    Old Stumpy Member

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    Is it actually hammer "impedance" or is it hammer "resistance"?

    I suppose that since it seems to be an "alternating" fire/misfire problem, it must be impedance. ;)
     
  6. Old Stumpy

    Old Stumpy Member

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    96 shots out of a cap & ball revolver or revolving rifle in one session seems like a long session. :)
     
  7. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    Yes and no.
    If a person had 3 different cylinders and was loading them using a loading press, then that's only loading them 5 times each plus one more cylinder full.
    Loading cylinders by using a loading press isn't all that time consuming if the powder charges are measured out before hand.

    Plus it's less than a full box of balls.
    What do you consider to be a long range session?

    Using a loading press and pre-measured powder charges as described may only take anywhere from 2 to 3 hours with time to spare.
    I'm figuring that it takes about 10 minutes to load 3 cylinders and 10 minutes to shoot them.
    That amounts to 54 shots per hour without allowing any breaks or extra time to change targets., which is 9 cylinders per hour, or 3 every 20 minutes.
    But a person can put 2 or more targets up at a time.
    I'm allowing a little extra time for shooting 18 shots since it may actually require slightly longer to load them, such as to lube the cylinder pin or to clean off powder fouling.
    But you get the picture.
    If a person uses a loading press, has plenty of pre-measured powder charges and at least 2 extra cylinders, then re-loading can be speeded up considerably.
    I'll even load the 1st three cylinders at home before leaving for the range.
    I know that you already know that faster reloading is one benefit of shooting the Remington design. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  8. whughett

    whughett Member

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    Yep , that’s what I do, only two cylinders though. Plus I normally put up two or more targets on the frame, and as I’m not shooting competitively I am acquiring the target and firing at a faster rate than some one bullseye shooting. Not pushing the shot mind you, but not holding on target either. This at a private gun club in Rhode Island where more often than not it’s just me and a buddy on the range. In Florida during the winter months at a public range it takes longer as the “Hot” line is 20 minutes in duration and one may wait 10 more on the “safe” condition before firing resumes.

    I also carry loose powder and ball for days I want to stay longer.
     
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  9. whughett

    whughett Member

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    Well I’ll find out if VTI comes thru with the replacement main spring I ordered, over 6 weeks ago. Of all my cap guns with the exception of the 1862 Police the hammer on this carbine is wimpy. :)
     
  10. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    So, if a session lasts 30 mins. or 30 hrs., shouldn't matter. Every time you pull the trigger, it should go bang! It's a purely mechanical thing.

    Mike
     
  11. mustanger98

    mustanger98 Member

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    I believe you need to re-read my post. Sure, I mentioned hand strength in passing, but I also said there's a guy on YouTube who explained the cap/cone/hammer/etc relationship. His explanation corroborates a good many observations prior to my comments.

    As to the arthritis, I already have experience with it, but it hasn't prevented me from cocking most stock mainsprings. But I'm not advocating stock mainspring as you'd have seen had you actually read my post.

    Believe it or not, there are people who hunt with C&B revolvers who tune them for user-friendly reliability in the field.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  12. mustanger98

    mustanger98 Member

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    This sounds like a cowboy action match... IIRC, "Plainsman" class.
     
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  13. mustanger98

    mustanger98 Member

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    Okay, if the Uberti Cattleman mainspring will fit the Remington types, will it fit a Rogers&Spencer.
     
  14. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    I'm not positive but I don't think so.
    I think that I recall reading that folks have a hard time finding spare parts for the Euroarms R &S, especially replacement mainsprings.
    And that without a replacement, it makes it more risky to try to alter one.
     
  15. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    edit duplicate post
     
  16. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Mustang, I tune a lot of "hunting Walkers".
    As far as reading posts, . . . I agree. I pretty much s-p-e-l-l-e-d out what would/could cause ftf besides the mainspring , but you started off pretty much saying that's the problem so . . . maybe it's not!!

    Mike
     
  17. mustanger98

    mustanger98 Member

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    Was the original R&S mainspring this heavy or is this problem just with remakes?
     
  18. mustanger98

    mustanger98 Member

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    I was just remembering hearing that the caps they used in the 1860's were a much lighter, less durable foil than what we get now. Maybe they expanded a lot easier, maybe too easy to work right, to fit the cones we have now. I'm wondering whether the Italian manufacturers are using cones different to what the various American manufacturers were using back then.
     
  19. Old Stumpy

    Old Stumpy Member

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    When my hands get really dirty and greasy from lubing over the chambers and wiping off black powder residue, and my towel is too far gone to keep up, and my spray bottle runs empty, and I start to stink of rotten eggs. By then I am well-satisfied.

    For me, about 42 rounds, or 6 cylinder-fulls. I only take one BP revolver out at a time, because I don't want to do a lot of disassembly and cleaning at the end of the day.

    Then I switch to my smokeless guns. All tolled, I'm done in about 4 hours.

    As Abe Lincoln said: "Short and sweet like the old woman's dance."
     
  20. sandy4570

    sandy4570 Member

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    Thanks everyone for great advice. I went ahead and ordered steel harden nipples from T.O.W and keep original as spare. I tried to order another hammer spring from Dixie Guns work but they don’t list that part anymore. I went to the range this morning and fired 44 rounds . The CCI caps still misfire and #10 cap won’t fit the new nipples . The Remington #11 cap works most the time( several misfire) . I used wooden dowel to seat the cap as far as it will go in. I have a few tins of Remington caps left and if I can’t get more I will switch the original main spring back on.
     
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