Romanian WASR vs Unconverted Saiga

[bri]

Saiga, hands down. I purchased all my conversion parts from CSS. If you're not comfortable doing the conversion yourself, find someone that's good with tools and ask for some assistance.

 

[Noah]

Thanks for the advice everyone, particularly the warnings against the Tapco grips. I probably would have gotten one otherwise.

For ammo try sgammo.com.

Rob G, thanks for the link but sgammo is currently out of the 5.45
Could I use foreign mags with a US made trigger group, stock, and pistol grips, no muzzle device but the original Russian forend?

If I got the following:
http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-891/Saiga-Rilfe-Conversion-Kit/Detail
http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-746/UPGRADE-CONVERSION-KIT-GRIP/Detail
http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1351/%23262-dsh--RED-THREAD-LOCKER/Detail]
http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-604/Saiga-5.45-Bullet-Guide/Detail OR http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1016/5.45x39-round-bullet-guide/Detail

Would that give me everything I needed for the conversion? I think I included everything, but that wouldn't be worth much if I didn't think of everything

 

[Noah]

I would be doing the work in my grandfather's carpentry shop, about 400 feet from my house. He is an experienced carpenter, his current hobby is making 18" doll furniture. He's almost always working and would be more than happy to help- and provide a nice, old drill press of the "they don't make them this nice anymore" variety. From wooden swords and guns years ago, to my brother's new GI aperture sights for his 10/22, he has been glad to share his experience. He's probably the nicest person I've ever met. He was a psychologist for 40-odd years, and even started writing a book about the importance of gladly helping younger kids build toy guns and birdhouses to get them interested in carpentry.

 

[ifit]

correct me if im wrong, but does the saiga conversion also need a bullet guide?

 

[Noah]

I read it will take hi caps without one but most people have feeding troubles particularly in the the last ten rounds.

 

[Rob G]

Rob G, thanks for the link but sgammo is currently out of the 5.45

That sucks. Try here: www.southernohiogun.com The way they do theirs 36 packs = one spam can and 72 = one crate.

Could I use foreign mags with a US made trigger group, stock, and pistol grips, no muzzle device but the original Russian forend?

Absolutely. That is a legal configuration. You could even add a muzzle device if you wanted as long as it was US made.

Would that give me everything I needed for the conversion?

I'm pretty sure that's everything. I can't think of anything you're missing.

correct me if im wrong, but does the saiga conversion also need a bullet guide?

@ifit In general the saiga conversions need one because the saiga rifles use a proprietary magazine that has the bullet guide built in so the rifle itself doesn't have one. So if you want to use surplus mags you need to add a bullet guide. I've met a few people with the 5.45 models that don't have a bullet guide though and their rifles function fine. Although they did say that it's only that specific caliber that seems to work without one.

 

[Noah]

Try here: www.southernohiogun.com The way they do theirs 36 packs = one spam can and 72 = one crate.

As I live in Ohio wouldn't I have to pay sales tax? At 6.5% that would add about $10...

 

[Gordon_Freeman]

I recommend saving up the money for an Arsenal SGL. The Saiga conversion seems like it would be too much trouble unless you are a gunsmith.

 

[bri]

I recommend saving up the money for an Arsenal SGL. The Saiga conversion seems like it would be too much trouble unless you are a gunsmith.

Is your comment based on experience? Saiga "conversions" need not be done by a gunsmith. Basic tools, common sense and YouTube are all you need.

 

[Rob G]

As I live in Ohio wouldn't I have to pay sales tax? At 6.5% that would add about $10...

Oh, didn't realize you lived in Ohio until just now. Yeah, you'd have to pay sales tax. It's still a great price for 1,080 rounds of ammo.

 

[Noah]

Oh, didn't realize you lived in Ohio until just now. Yeah, you'd have to pay sales tax. It's still a great price for 1,080 rounds of ammo.

Great price or not, the extra tax takes away the competitive edge vs. The Sportsman's Guide. My family has ordered ammo from them several times and we have been very satisfied.

I recommend saving up the money for an Arsenal SGL. The Saiga conversion seems like it would be too much trouble unless you are a gunsmith.

I understand the Arsenal is a better AK with no conversion. But, as I pointed out in my OP, it is not the case that I have only saved enough for the Saiga/WASR. I have saved enough to get an Arsenal, but have made an unforced decision against getting one for the sake of frugality. I make minimum wage at a grocery store, and while I do not have many financial responsibilities yet beyond my car, lunches, insurance, and gas (and ammo ), money comes slowly and every $1 counts.

To quote Thomas Jefferson (at least the Colonial Williamsburg reenactor haha) on how to be financially responsible:

1. Take care of your pennies and your dollars will take care of themselves.
2. Don't buy something you neither truly want nor need simply because it is cheap.
3. Never spend money that you do not possess.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Arsenal IS THE Saiga with conversion. A Russian AK is just that, a Russian AK. Go with Russian. They invented, developed, and mass produced one if not THE most significant rifle in history. Needless to say, they know their stuff. Go Saiga.

 

[Noah]

My LGS is closed Monday and Tuesday. I'll visit them Wednesday and see if they have a Saiga (small chance but a maybe) and if not, ask them to fax their FFL to Atlantic Firearms as they're not yet on their list. Then I'll order the gun, and ammo from The Sportsman's Guide.

Once I receive the gun, I'll order all the parts from Carolina Shooter's supply according to the trunnion type I receive. I plan on getting a pair of Tapco mags along with the conversion parts order, and then foreign mags as I can.

While I wait for the parts, I'll shoot it a bit, and disassemble and reassemble it a few times to get myself fully familiar with the layout.

I would prefer to do the bullet guide first, but I believe I actually have to do the PG, trigger, and stock first to keep things 922r compliant. I'll do the whole conversion according to a video guide.

Any recommendations on which to use?

Thanks so much for all the help and advice. I'm sure I'll be even more grateful once I have the converted rifle, in 5.45 and equipped with a Hogue grip.

 

[meanmrmustard]

My LGS is closed Monday and Tuesday. I'll visit them Wednesday and see if they have a Saiga (small chance but a maybe) and if not, ask them to fax their FFL to Atlantic Firearms as they're not yet on their list. Then I'll order the gun, and ammo from The Sportsman's Guide.

Once I receive the gun, I'll order all the parts from Carolina Shooter's supply according to the trunnion type I receive. I plan on getting a pair of Tapco mags along with the conversion parts order, and then foreign mags as I can.

While I wait for the parts, I'll shoot it a bit, and disassemble and reassemble it a few times to get myself fully familiar with the layout.

I would prefer to do the bullet guide first, but I believe I actually have to do the PG, trigger, and stock first to keep things 922r compliant. I'll do the whole conversion according to a video guide.

Any recommendations on which to use?

Thanks so much for all the help and advice. I'm sure I'll be even more grateful once I have the converted rifle, in 5.45 and equipped with a Hogue grip.

Good on you! Wise choice. I'll watch what I can to help.

 

[ThePenguinKnight]

You can have no more than 10 foreign parts, and there are a total of 16 parts on the Saiga.

To use the PG and the 10+ magazines, you need 6 US parts. A stock, grip, and trigger group are 5 parts (trigger group counts as 3). So you could either do a US follower in your magazines (or use Tapco/US Palm magazines that are US-made), or a US-made handguard, which is probably the way to go. There are several options for the standard Saiga handguards out there. Just a note about magazines... to use non-Saiga magazines, you have to install a bullet guide. Very easy, and $20 from CSS.

To remove the "thread protector", just get a Dremel. If you're a chosen one, you'll have factory threads. Otherwise, you'll have to thread it yourself (very easy).

I suggest you head over to Saiga-12.com, where it's all about Saigas and conversions.

Not quite correct. Without a muzzle device, a converted Saiga has 15 parts that count for 922r; the standard AKM has 16 parts that count. So ignoring the muzzle device, a back-end conversion (buttstock, pistol grip, and trigger/sear/disconnector) gets you to the maximum 10 foreign parts and you're legal for foreign 10+ capacity magazines. With that setup, you would not be able to attach a foreign muzzle device and still be compliant with 922r, but there are American made muzzle devices you can use, or you could replace another part as mentioned above.

For the record, I went with the Saiga IZ-332 (the 7.62x39 with the front end already done up) and converted the rear (Hogue grip is excellent). I used an American made muzzle brake available from Carolina Shooter Supply, styled like the AK-74 brake. The brake is really effective at reducing muzzle climb and makes a noticeable difference in recoil, and it retains compliance with 922r, but I won't be using it when I take the rifle to the woods due to the extra noise coming back at me .

The conversion itself is much, much, much simpler than you think it is. You'll be done and enjoying the rifle before you know it. I went extremely slow and was still done in just a couple hours, and the rifle came out looking and working great. Best of all, it shoots into 2" or less at 100yds (scoped, using two different shooters) with the cheap soft point ammo from the box store. The 5.45x39 model is famed for being yet more accurate, so I have no doubt you'll be pleased.

If you need a hand with the process, feel free to message me. Also, check the Saiga forums for more instructions and information.

(For the record, I have nothing against WASRs; I just like rRussian guns, and especially factory new parts.)

 

[Rob G]

Great price or not, the extra tax takes away the competitive edge vs. The Sportsman's Guide. My family has ordered ammo from them several times and we have been very satisfied.

Makes sense. If they're competetive and you like the service then that's the place to buy from.

If you're interested in combloc mags for it get yourself an account over on ak47.net There are always people on that forum selling off '74 mags for less than what you'd pay at an online retailer. I actually picked up a pair of East German bakelites there the other day for $45, which sounds like a lot but it's practically theft for bakelites.

Good luck with your project and post pics when you're done.

 

[hboy35]

Noah, you should run for president

I saw your advice to yourself and me thinks you wise beyond your years young grasshopper:

"To quote Thomas Jefferson (at least the Colonial Williamsburg reenactor haha) on how to be financially responsible:

1. Take care of your pennies and your dollars will take care of themselves.
2. Don't buy something you neither truly want nor need simply because it is cheap.
3. Never spend money that you do not possess."

 

[Noah]

Well, I plan on applying to the Merchant Marine Academy later this year, and while I don't necessarily like politics, who knows?

 

[Noah]

Picked Up My Saiga Today

My dad and I went to the LGS to pick up my IZ-240 from Atlantic Firearms today. I've shot the rifle 30 times or so, after that I was ready for some air conditioning

I'm wildly impressed with every aspect of the rifle but can't stand the trigger. My favorite feature is actually the forend, it's very comfortable to me, and I'll definitely be keeping it. The trigger, however... let's just say I had been thinking of delaying the conversion for a while until I used the trigger. Today or tomorrow I'll place an order at Carolina Shooter Supply.

My rifle came with a flat trunnion. It also came with an empty oil bottle, a rod too big for the rifle (possibly for 7.62?) and a rod accessories kit that I can't figure out how to open

 

[meanmrmustard]

My dad and I went to the LGS to pick up my IZ-240 from Atlantic Firearms today. I've shot the rifle 30 times or so, after that I was ready for some air conditioning

I'm wildly impressed with every aspect of the rifle but can't stand the trigger. My favorite feature is actually the forend, it's very comfortable to me, and I'll definitely be keeping it. The trigger, however... let's just say I had been thinking of delaying the conversion for a while until I used the trigger. Today or tomorrow I'll place an order at Carolina Shooter Supply.

My rifle came with a flat trunnion. It also came with an empty oil bottle, a rod too big for the rifle (possibly for 7.62?) and a rod accessories kit that I can't figure out how to open

Pictures?

 

[Rob G]

Congratulations on the new rifle!

I'm wildly impressed with every aspect of the rifle but can't stand the trigger.

Yeah, it sucks pretty bad. That's probably one of the biggest reasons people convert them.

It also came with an empty oil bottle, a rod too big for the rifle (possibly for 7.62?) and a rod accessories kit that I can't figure out how to open

My Arsenal came with none of those but I'm going to assume that's all cleaning stuff. You won't need any of it really. Get a bore snake for the barrel. Everything else you need you probably already own if you have other guns.

If you want to shoot corrosive ammo (which it sounded like you did) then also add a can of WD 40 and plastic spray bottle (for water) to your cleaning supplies. The spray bottle is to wash the salt from the corrosive ammo out of the gun. The WD 40 you use to chase the water out. Then clean as normal.

 

[Noah]

Thanks for the tip on employing WD-40 after the water. I'm familiar with cleaning up after shooting corrosive ammo in my Mosin, and your method sounds better than mine: microwave 4 cups of water in a glass beaker, pour it done the barrel (taken out of the stock, action removed), which heats the barrel to the point I need insulation to handle it, which mostly dries in a few minutes, followed by several dry patches, then some with solvent, and then a few more dry ones.

I had the foresight to pick up a boresnake when I was at the LGS last week, so an incompatible cleaning rod is ok with me.

Attachments:

1. The rifle.
2. Tried to take a cell phone picture of the sight picture, turned out ok-ish.
3. "Fime group" importation markings.
4. The trunnion. Took me a while trying to set it up so it was visible, but ended up just using a flashlight.

 

[Noah]

5. Accessories
6. Rod accessories. Can't figure out how to open it
7. One of my 1020 remaining rounds of surplus next to the rod. A close look shows the rod to be of a larger diameter than the bullet.


I've gotten a bit more used to the trigger... but it's still very bad.