Rossi lever action in 454 casull
- Thread starter tabealer
- Start date
- Status
cmdc
Member
Yes, they will shoot .45LC. They can be loaded through the loading gate, but .454s have to be loaded through the slot in the tube. Good luck finding one of those rifles, though. I have wanted one for a while, but settled for the 45LC version for now. I'm sure one will turn up eventually.
WardenWolf
member
I believe Rossi has discontinued them. Apparently the 92 action just wasn't strong enough for such a hot round, and the guns tended to tear themselves apart in short order. I wanted one, too, but all the information I've been able to find indicates they're permanently out of production, and stories have surfaced of major mechanical breakdowns with the .454 model. However, Rossi did make it right and, in one case, exchanged a guy's gun for the .45LC model at his request.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
You keep repeating this and it is simply not true, nor is it ever substantiated. These guns were discontinued due to lack of sales. I have never heard of one letting go. Even the standard .45Colt's are safe to 50,000psi and most factory .454 loads do not exceed 55,000psi. So if the same gun in .480 with substantially thinner chamber walls is safe at 48,000psi, there is little suggest that what you post is true. Either put your money where your mouth is and provide some evidence or stop spreading this rumor.
Cop Bob
Member
Jeese...
Who Cares? They are off the market... (but I would like to have one)
The pressures that you are quoting are impressive, and nearing Bolt Gun Pressures... While the barrels may well hold up to these pressures, the design limits of the lock up on a lever, given the thickness of the receivers, the battering that they would take at those pressures, an occasional failure would not be unbelievable..
I am not at all familiar with this EXACT model, but I own two other Rossi levers, in 38/357, and one in 44. Both are designed about the same.. I have shot some pretty bodacious loads out of both of them, but not a steady diet..
I'm not sure that either one of my guns would hold up under a steady diet of loads at the pressures you describe..
The bolt locking mechanism on the Rossi Lever, is really not all that different from the feature on the M-92 and 96 Beretta pistols, in that there are locking lugs that, in the Beretta, momentarily take the full brunt of the the recoil on the two lugs, that are riding in slots milled into the slide of the Beretta, an the receiver on the Rossi...
Cracking slides in the m-92's are well documented with +P ammo.. It is why SEALS used to have a a saying of "You can't be a NAVY SEAL until you have tasted Italian Steel". I too have seen the cracked Beretta slides come into the shop..
Not to say they are the same, but the lock-up designs share a similar feature.. and a constant hammering at near 55K cup of pressure, coupled with the inertia that comes off the thumb size heavy bullets that the Casull is capable of throwing... This would tend to lend credence to the belief that an occasional failure was possible...
Who Cares? They are off the market... (but I would like to have one)
The pressures that you are quoting are impressive, and nearing Bolt Gun Pressures... While the barrels may well hold up to these pressures, the design limits of the lock up on a lever, given the thickness of the receivers, the battering that they would take at those pressures, an occasional failure would not be unbelievable..
I am not at all familiar with this EXACT model, but I own two other Rossi levers, in 38/357, and one in 44. Both are designed about the same.. I have shot some pretty bodacious loads out of both of them, but not a steady diet..
I'm not sure that either one of my guns would hold up under a steady diet of loads at the pressures you describe..
The bolt locking mechanism on the Rossi Lever, is really not all that different from the feature on the M-92 and 96 Beretta pistols, in that there are locking lugs that, in the Beretta, momentarily take the full brunt of the the recoil on the two lugs, that are riding in slots milled into the slide of the Beretta, an the receiver on the Rossi...
Cracking slides in the m-92's are well documented with +P ammo.. It is why SEALS used to have a a saying of "You can't be a NAVY SEAL until you have tasted Italian Steel". I too have seen the cracked Beretta slides come into the shop..
Not to say they are the same, but the lock-up designs share a similar feature.. and a constant hammering at near 55K cup of pressure, coupled with the inertia that comes off the thumb size heavy bullets that the Casull is capable of throwing... This would tend to lend credence to the belief that an occasional failure was possible...
I find full power 44 Magnums in a Marlin 1894 less than fun, I cannot imagine shooting 454 Casull's in a steel buttplate M1892.
Can't imagine shooting 454 Casull's in a handgun either.
Maybe sales dropped after people found that recoil ain't fun.
Can't imagine shooting 454 Casull's in a handgun either.
Maybe sales dropped after people found that recoil ain't fun.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Were they recalled? No. Whether they are currently produced or not, they are STILL on the market.
And how is this relevant?
They did not have a steel buttplate. Although I have little problem shooting my .405 with its steel buttplate.
oldfool
Member
comments from the peanut gallery -
is the typical 1892 lever action carbine strong enough to take it.. yes it is
(too many folks underrate 1892 strength because they just don't "look" as stout as they really are)
is it a harsh enough load to stress the '92... yes it certainly is
Seems to me analogous to pumping 357 mag thru my k-frame revolvers
the k-frames are strong enough, tough enough to handle it, but it does indeed stress the design, and ultimately will shorten the life of the gun, especially if fed the hotter 125 gr loads (which are not seen a lot anymore, unless you handload or boutique), which why S&W and Ruger both went to beefier 357 revolver frames a long time ago
But they won't just blow up in your hand or whatever, sign of deterioration will eventually show up though
prime reason why they are apparently ceasing production on the 454... it was a niche market from the get go, just not enough buyers to sustain demand, especially given the several other cartridges these revolver load carbines are chambered for (45LC, 44 mag, 357) that easily fulfill the needs of most shooters... and a significant portion of buyers in that niche included people most prone to wildcat 'em up, which probably did cause some accelerated stress issues
to OP
someone at leverguns.com did a good writeup on these 454s pretty early on after their release, running some pretty hot "overspec" loads IIRC, Paco or Jim T, I think
probably could Google that up for more info
most folks just do not really need hotter than 45LC or 44 mag, and/or they just go to rifle rounds to get there, you know
is the typical 1892 lever action carbine strong enough to take it.. yes it is
(too many folks underrate 1892 strength because they just don't "look" as stout as they really are)
is it a harsh enough load to stress the '92... yes it certainly is
Seems to me analogous to pumping 357 mag thru my k-frame revolvers
the k-frames are strong enough, tough enough to handle it, but it does indeed stress the design, and ultimately will shorten the life of the gun, especially if fed the hotter 125 gr loads (which are not seen a lot anymore, unless you handload or boutique), which why S&W and Ruger both went to beefier 357 revolver frames a long time ago
But they won't just blow up in your hand or whatever, sign of deterioration will eventually show up though
prime reason why they are apparently ceasing production on the 454... it was a niche market from the get go, just not enough buyers to sustain demand, especially given the several other cartridges these revolver load carbines are chambered for (45LC, 44 mag, 357) that easily fulfill the needs of most shooters... and a significant portion of buyers in that niche included people most prone to wildcat 'em up, which probably did cause some accelerated stress issues
to OP
someone at leverguns.com did a good writeup on these 454s pretty early on after their release, running some pretty hot "overspec" loads IIRC, Paco or Jim T, I think
probably could Google that up for more info
most folks just do not really need hotter than 45LC or 44 mag, and/or they just go to rifle rounds to get there, you know
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I think lots of folks wanted one before they shot one and then changed their minds.
I do recall hearing from Bob Baker of Freedom Arms about ten years ago that all the major manufacturers were trying to get their existing actions to stand up to the .454. All to no avail. Even rifle-length actions like the Winchester Big Bore 94 and Marlin 336 could not take the pressure for long. The 1886 was obviously large enough and strong enough but too large and heavy for the cartridge. Only the 1892 design proved strong enough to handle the pressures involved. I agree that folks don't realize how strong they are, that pressure-wise, they are stronger than all the other traditional actions. Except perhaps the Winchester 1895. A tribute to John Browning's genius.
I do recall hearing from Bob Baker of Freedom Arms about ten years ago that all the major manufacturers were trying to get their existing actions to stand up to the .454. All to no avail. Even rifle-length actions like the Winchester Big Bore 94 and Marlin 336 could not take the pressure for long. The 1886 was obviously large enough and strong enough but too large and heavy for the cartridge. Only the 1892 design proved strong enough to handle the pressures involved. I agree that folks don't realize how strong they are, that pressure-wise, they are stronger than all the other traditional actions. Except perhaps the Winchester 1895. A tribute to John Browning's genius.
JTW Jr.
Member
I believe one who cares is the person who started the thread.
- Status
