Rotating Ammo

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by ms6852, Sep 15, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ms6852

    ms6852 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    3,187
    Location:
    TEXAS
    Its the time of year where I rotate my ammo inventory like stores do their inventory...FIFO (first in and first out). In doing so I found several boxes of 30-30 winchester for $6.99.

    Was just wondering what the going price is for 30-30 and 35 rem which mine were marked for $9.99.

    I guess I'm taking my lever actions out for deer season this year and living my bolt rifle home.
     
  2. lxd55

    lxd55 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2014
    Messages:
    378
    I do not own a 30-30 but just to guess, I think 35 would be 20.00 a box.
    didn't look it up. may I ask why you rotate ammo?
    nothing meant just asking.
     
  3. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    9,827
    Location:
    SW Arizona
    I know quite a few folks that rotate their ammunition. I reload, but I do rotate my carry cartridges every couple of weeks, but not because I worry about it getting old, therefore not functioning. I do it because the cartridges will start to tarnish, and nothing bothers me more than nasty looking ammunition. I then toss my rotated stock into the tumbler next time I tumble some brass, then back into my inventory they go, to be carried again, or shot at some future point in time.

    As to why many folks rotate their ammunition, it is believed and purported, that ammunition will expire, thus fail to fire. On numerous occasions I've shot reloads of mine that are often 5-10 yrs. old, never had a fail to fire, ever. Several weeks ago I sighted in one of my rifles for hunting season this year, a .270 win., and these loads were dated July 1997. They functioned flawlessly and performed exactly the same as my fresh loads using the same data and components. the only thing I've ever done is tumble them to spiff them up a bit, other wise I trust them completely to perform as intended.

    GS
     
  4. lxd55

    lxd55 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2014
    Messages:
    378
    yes this is what I am thinking. the stuff will not go bad, unless it had a problem when manufactured.
     
  5. Tirod

    Tirod Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,292
    Location:
    SW MO
    The "stuff" will go bad. It needs to be shot FIFO to keep the affect of powder slowly oxidizing, or the primers deteriorating. It's entirely the reason you see the military selling off old ammo. It degraded and became a known problem.

    A lot of that happens even tho the rounds are packed in sealed containers and those are overpacked in others, stored in underground bunkers to keep them cooler, with ventilation to prevent moisture buildup.

    Rotating daily carry ammo is done because if you pull the mag and eject the round, you will then later chamber either that or another repeatedly. That can cause some setback which can spike chamber pressures beyond acceptable limits. It's one reason the military crimps all small arms ammo, and the Forward Assist on the M16 didn't help any in that regard. Military also seals the primer and case necks as needed. Civilian ammo isn't.

    The 20 year old lots of ammo being sold off from some country's inventory have proven ignition issues when rated in thousands of rounds, and endanger a soldier with their defect rate significantly enough to warrant selling it off rather than risking his life in combat. At least in many western nations.

    Not the kind of stuff I would want to have resting in my cellar aging even further waiting for me to finally get around to shooting it - especially in a critical moment of need.

    I does come to mind why the civilian market seems to think they need extremely overengineered charging handles on their AR15's, tho. You shoot junk and you will get a lot more stoppages. It appears to me to be a sad testimony to that individuals procurement system. It's certainly not up to military standards, which could be exceeded by reloading and taking steps to store your own ammo in a number of better ways. The average American home with HVAC does a better job of storage than a military bunker - and has active security, too.
     
  6. Reloadron
    • Contributing Member

    Reloadron Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    9,029
    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio USA
    November 2, 2014 Set the clocks back an hour from EDT to EST in my little corner of the world.

    November 2, 2014 Rotate CCW ammunition.

    November 2, 2014 Change batteries in the house smoke detectors.

    There, done for another year. :)

    I have a few boxes of Remington UMC 7.62 x 39 sitting here that I was selling for $5.50 during the mid '90s. That same ammunition today sells through Midway for $20 a box of 20. Granted about 20 years ago. I believe 30-30 was about the same price. Then too, a loaf of bread was much less expensive 20 years ago also.

    Last week I took some 308 Winchester I loaded 03-07-99 and it not only shot fine but comparing the velocity over the chronograph showed no real change.

    The main problem with imported military surplus is not knowing how the stuff was stored or handled over the past 20 (or more) years. I think it is member SlamFire who has posted countless times about powder deterioration, especially with regard to storage temperatures.

    Anyway, when it comes to critical defense ammunition I figure it can't hurt to rotate it and shoot up the old stuff.

    Ron
     
  7. g.willikers

    g.willikers Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,027
    Guess it's time to think about at least testing the old ammo that's sitting around here.
    Some of it must be 30 years old.
    There's more from 10 to 20 years old.
    To be hanging around here for so long, it's obviously not what normally gets used.
    But instead of just filling up the local range with lead, and depleting expensive to replace supplies, maybe just trying a few samples from each batch will do.
     
  8. Dr. Sandman

    Dr. Sandman Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    Northern Indiana
    I am a proponent of writing purchase dates on the boxes. I try to shoot the non-corrosive stuff before it gets to be about 20 years old.
     
  9. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    5,919
    Tirod, how does powder inside a loaded cartridge which Is pretty airtight and sealed in an airtight container oxidize?
     
  10. lxd55

    lxd55 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2014
    Messages:
    378
    I was buying bulk years ago 1200 rounds 75 dollars. 250 dollars today, I cannot afford to replace what I shoot. my ammo is sealed and kept as dry and humidity free as I can do.
    some have more to mess with, I am not one of those.
     
  11. ny32182

    ny32182 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2003
    Messages:
    5,838
    Location:
    Clemson, SC
    I had a magazine of factory Gold Dots that was in my car in SC for probably 5 years pretty much non-stop, through all the heat and humidity cycles we get there.

    Finally figured I would "rotate it". It all fired like a dream.

    I've shot several thousand rounds of surplus rifle ammo in various conditions, much of it as old as I am, never a problem.

    You can rotate ammo if it makes you feel better, but unless you are storing your carry gun under water, the only benefit is going to be psychological.

    I wouldn't make a habit of chambering the same round a gazillion times, but again, a little setback is not going to blow up your gun. If it did, a hundred cops across the US would be blowing up guns, every day of the week. Your gun can take a lot more pressure variation than you think, and perform with flying colors.
     
  12. Blue Thunder

    Blue Thunder Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Messages:
    204
    Location:
    In the Gun Room
    The only really old ammo I have is a couple hundred rounds of 38Spl (back in the early 1970's)I loaded using a Lee Whack-A-mole system. All the rest of my reloaded ammo is less than 20 years old and using components bought in the last 20 years. I also have a ton of new components bought in 2008 and you know why. My "Social Ammo" is kept close to the heart and that is also another couple thousand rounds. I have close to 3000 rounds of Range Ammo to shoot for the next year or so until I get my "Retirement Villa" built. I have rotated these rounds into my Colt Detective Special revolver and all still shoot to point of aim.
     
  13. lxd55

    lxd55 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2014
    Messages:
    378
    I am so jealous.
     
  14. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Messages:
    12,064
    Location:
    Middle Tn
    30-30 is now about 18 bucks for a box of standard Remington or Federal. I can't say with certainty that I have ever seen 35 rem on the shelf. It's getting to be more of a collector caliber and prices are going up in places that it is sold (online). Another good one headed out for no particular reason.
     
  15. Trent

    Trent Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    25,151
    Location:
    Illinois
    If ammo is stored in a temperature controlled environment it will last indefinitely.

    The reason you see some surplus ammunition (Persian 8mm, etc) with really bad results (hangfires, misfires, split cases) is because it was not stored in environmentally friendly conditions. (Persia... very high temps!)

    I have shot US GI 45 ammunition manufactured in 1941/2 as recently as three years ago, every round went bang, and it was some of the best 45 ammo I'd shot in recent memory. Great brass.

    I have shot 1970's era surplus from Switzerland. Great ammo. Some of the most inherently accurate factory ammo I've ever shot, bar none. No problems.

    I have shot 22 LR manufactured last year by Remington and Federal, with 1/10 misfires (or more), noticeable low powder charges sending rounds 6" or more off target, and monster 5" groups at 50 yards out of a match 10/22 (Eley, by comparison, holds sub .5 MOA).

    I witnessed, personally, a few rounds of Lake City 5.56 factory ammo *hangfire* at a high power match earlier this year. Mfg 2012.

    I've got reloads in the basement from 1998 that I made, which would (and do) fire just fine when I get them out and dust off the boxes.

    I have reloads my family members have made, going back to the mid 1960's, which all fire just fine. (I inherited two uncle's reloading stuff). Some of my Uncle Joe's 38 special & 357 rounds (dated 1968, after he returned from Vietnam), are some of the most accurate 38 I've ever shot. Old guy must have known a trick or two not in the books. :)

    I have primers dating back to the late 60's early 70's that still shoot fine. Powder that is 50+ years old, still burns fine with no overpressure signs.

    If stored in good temperatures, in airtight containers, powder won't go bad. Primers? Heck like I've said, I have some oldies, and they all go bang just fine.

    People that worry about ammo that is 3-4 years old need count their blessings, if that's the worst thing they have to stress over.
     
  16. HB

    HB Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    2,280
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    My uncle gave me about a thousand rounds of shotshells from the lead era of water fowling. I'm only 23 so most of this ammo is older than me and all of it stored in a garage. All of these shells have fired and I'd argue shotshells are less durable/air tight than brass cases ammo. Some are rusty from being stored on the floor. Short of rimfire, I'd trust any ammo less than 50 years old to pop off with no issue. Old rimfire Is less reliable but stlll better than any current production remington or Winchester.



    HB
     
  17. Field Tester

    Field Tester Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,058
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
  18. John828

    John828 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,089
    Location:
    Arkansas
    I just bought a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem. I couldn't find ammo in any store except one. They were Remington 200 gr core-lokts priced at $29.99. Someone won't like it, but I bought all six boxes to have the brass.
     
  19. lxd55

    lxd55 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2014
    Messages:
    378
    really? wow when I was younger the .35 was a very popular caliber.
     
  20. John828

    John828 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,089
    Location:
    Arkansas

    Apparently, ammo and components are just seasonally produced now. Which to me means, they make as much as they expect to sell, distribute it, and, when it's gone, it's gone till next year. With deer season approaching, I would expect to see it on shelves soon.
     
  21. Potatohead

    Potatohead Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    5,375
    I dont really see a reason not to rotate everything in your life.
     
  22. orionengnr

    orionengnr Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,579
    I would agree...if you buy some new stuff, put it on the back of the shelf and use the older stuff first.

    That said, I cannot agree with the "10-year old surplus ammo" post as stated earlier.

    I have shot a lot of ammo that is 40, 50 or more years old, and never had a problem with it.
     
  23. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,837
    Location:
    Southwestern IL-ANNOY
    lxd55 - they place "sell by", "use by", or "best by" dates on food products for a reason.
    While the degradation of ammunition components each have their own "failure rate", they do eventually fail. It is just that, under average conditions, those times are so long, it is easier to put the "date of manufacture" on the lots of ammo rather than an "out date". It is up to the user (the military, us, whoever) to keep the freshest stock to the rear and use the older stuff first.
    One way to test the viability of the ammo is to take 5-10% out of each box, fire it, note the number of "F2F" or worse, "squib" loads, and rate each lot of ammo. When the rate of unreliability gets too high, you trash the ammo.

    Question is - do we have the time and reserves of ammo to do that? Probably not. Then it is just better to use the oldest ammo up in practise and save the newer stuff for SD/HD and hunting.
     
  24. lxd55

    lxd55 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2014
    Messages:
    378
    if you have battle packs or spam cans or sealed wooden crates how do you get to your % rate?
    some have all. this is not buying from cabelas.
     
  25. ms6852

    ms6852 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    3,187
    Location:
    TEXAS
    IXD55 the sole reason forme to rotate my ammo is piece of mind. Rotating my ammo also allows me to see how much I have in stock. I do not reload every caliber just those I shoot more frequently, and as is evident 30/30 and 35 rem are calibers I do not shoot frequently .
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice