Round count and rifles
- Thread starter jeepmor
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I've HEARD 22-250 is one that often sees throat erosion from excessively hot loads. But with factory ammo I am not sure there's a 'maximum round count'.
Depends on what your accuracy requirements are, what your driving- I mean shooting habits are, what the barrel is made out of and whether or not load pressures are firewalled or throttled back a bit. Hornaday specified max pressure for the 204 to be a little less as to cut down on barrel wear.
Basically, you won't know what kind of barrel life you'll get before accuracy drops to an unacceptable level with a certain caliber until you shoot enough to find out
Basically, you won't know what kind of barrel life you'll get before accuracy drops to an unacceptable level with a certain caliber until you shoot enough to find out
As stated, depends on needs. I was still getting 1-1.5 with my 7mm at 1500rnds or so.
I swaped it cause i was picky, but the guy i gave it too is still happy with it at some thousand rounds or so later. Course he only started complaing about his barrel when it keyholed.
I swaped it cause i was picky, but the guy i gave it too is still happy with it at some thousand rounds or so later. Course he only started complaing about his barrel when it keyholed.
depends on the way you shoot.
i can say i've never burnt out a 308 barrel.
i just put barrel #4 on my 260AI
i went ahead and had 3 barrels made at the same time for my 6 SLR
i only needed 2 223rem barrels for all my HP service rifle shooting.
i can say i've never burnt out a 308 barrel.
i just put barrel #4 on my 260AI
i went ahead and had 3 barrels made at the same time for my 6 SLR
i only needed 2 223rem barrels for all my HP service rifle shooting.
motorcycle_dan
Member
Re-new your old barrel
If you are shooting a bolt gun, for about half the price of a new barrel you could have a smith set it back and cut a new chamber. As long as the crown is still un-damaged should bring it back to original grouping.
So according to the CMP folks, the chamber errosion of an M1 moves one number for every 250 rounds. If you have a chamber reading of 2 and shoot 500 rounds you should now have a chamber reading about 4.
Out to 6 is still accurate enough to be issued.
So I would say it depends on your accuracy and how it is shooting. I wouldn't change based on round count but on shots wandering outside of my call. But look around next time at the rifle range. How many shooters on the line could notice the difference in accuracy at 300+ yards.
If you are shooting a bolt gun, for about half the price of a new barrel you could have a smith set it back and cut a new chamber. As long as the crown is still un-damaged should bring it back to original grouping.
So according to the CMP folks, the chamber errosion of an M1 moves one number for every 250 rounds. If you have a chamber reading of 2 and shoot 500 rounds you should now have a chamber reading about 4.
Out to 6 is still accurate enough to be issued.
So I would say it depends on your accuracy and how it is shooting. I wouldn't change based on round count but on shots wandering outside of my call. But look around next time at the rifle range. How many shooters on the line could notice the difference in accuracy at 300+ yards.
adelbridge
Member
i dont think there is a switch that flips at 2000 or 4000 rounds, wear is a constant and gradual process.
TurtlePhish
Member
Another BIG thing that hasn't really been mentioned yet is how hot you let the barrel get while shooting. If you're out varmint hunting with a rifle chambered for a high-pressure cartridge and firing lots, very quickly, it's entirely possible that your barrel will be toast before the end of the day.
Same rifle shooting paper and letting the barrel cool between shots could last for years and be acceptably accurate.
Same rifle shooting paper and letting the barrel cool between shots could last for years and be acceptably accurate.
Must be a POS barrel/gun if that happens.
browningguy
Member
Ummm, no actually.
Shoot an overbore like a .243, standard or AI version, hot and heavy for 8-10 hours and it could well be toast. Heat is what is causing the problem with high rates of fire. As an example most high quality .243 barrels seem to hold reasonable accuracy (say 1/2 moa out to 300 yards) for around 1200-1500 rounds. But if you start shooting 50 rounds per hour and keep it up all day without a break then the chamber area could well be shot out in a single day. A mild cartridge like the .223 or .308 Winchester might well go 5000-6000 rounds (if not overheated) and still maintain target level accuracy.
Most of the serious P-Dog hunters out here carry 2-3 rifles minimum for a shoot. Heck, I'm not even serious about it and I carry 2 rifles when I go. Shoot a .223 (or other mild cartridge) when you start with the close range critters, then switch to the faster cartridge once all the shooting is out past 300.
My close range gun is an AR in .223 with a 16" stainless bull barrel and honestly I can't imagine I will shoot it out in the next 5 years.
My longer range varmint/target rifle is in .243, after about 1200 rounds the factory barrel was losing it's accuracy a bit so I went ahead and switched to a Lothar Walther stainless. They say their LW50 steel is less prone to heat damage and wears longer than 416 stainless. I'm hoping this one will go 2000-2500 rounds.
savanahsdad
Member
nice Savage !Ummm, no actually.
Shoot an overbore like a .243, standard or AI version, hot and heavy for 8-10 hours and it could well be toast. Heat is what is causing the problem with high rates of fire. As an example most high quality .243 barrels seem to hold reasonable accuracy (say 1/2 moa out to 300 yards) for around 1200-1500 rounds. But if you start shooting 50 rounds per hour and keep it up all day without a break then the chamber area could well be shot out in a single day. A mild cartridge like the .223 or .308 Winchester might well go 5000-6000 rounds (if not overheated) and still maintain target level accuracy.
Most of the serious P-Dog hunters out here carry 2-3 rifles minimum for a shoot. Heck, I'm not even serious about it and I carry 2 rifles when I go. Shoot a .223 (or other mild cartridge) when you start with the close range critters, then switch to the faster cartridge once all the shooting is out past 300.
My close range gun is an AR in .223 with a 16" stainless bull barrel and honestly I can't imagine I will shoot it out in the next 5 years.
My longer range varmint/target rifle is in .243, after about 1200 rounds the factory barrel was losing it's accuracy a bit so I went ahead and switched to a Lothar Walther stainless. They say their LW50 steel is less prone to heat damage and wears longer than 416 stainless. I'm hoping this one will go 2000-2500 rounds.
Jim Watson
Member
The switch can flip.
I SAW a .308 fail to make it from 4600 to 4700.
At least that is what the shooter said. Accurate at last month's Long Range match, would not hit the target frame after sighters this time.
A friend's M1A went west on him between one day and the next. He won the Saturday Highpower event, was nowhere close on Sunday. Testing a few days later showed the barrel was shot out, at less than 5000.
He replaced the .308 barrel on his F-T/R after 2500. He is a Master class shooter and could tell when it started to slide. I am not that good a shot.
I was told the Army MTU F-Open team would replace the barrels on their 6.5x284s after 850. Playing it real safe, they will usually last 1200-1400 from what I hear. Which is why I shoot the .223 and .308.
I SAW a .308 fail to make it from 4600 to 4700.
At least that is what the shooter said. Accurate at last month's Long Range match, would not hit the target frame after sighters this time.
A friend's M1A went west on him between one day and the next. He won the Saturday Highpower event, was nowhere close on Sunday. Testing a few days later showed the barrel was shot out, at less than 5000.
He replaced the .308 barrel on his F-T/R after 2500. He is a Master class shooter and could tell when it started to slide. I am not that good a shot.
I was told the Army MTU F-Open team would replace the barrels on their 6.5x284s after 850. Playing it real safe, they will usually last 1200-1400 from what I hear. Which is why I shoot the .223 and .308.
One year at Camp Perry I was squadded with a guy who was shooting a 22-250. I am certain that his barrel would not go 2000 rounds, probably closer to 1000. He told me he had replaced one barrel and there was no rifling for the first 12 inches forward of the throat.
The barrel/bullet quality you need to shoot well at 600 yards is higher than to 300 yards. This is something not appreciated by those who advocate crimping since few people shoot at long range. Bullet wobble induced by either a bad barrel or crimping shows up the further back you go.
The barrel/bullet quality you need to shoot well at 600 yards is higher than to 300 yards. This is something not appreciated by those who advocate crimping since few people shoot at long range. Bullet wobble induced by either a bad barrel or crimping shows up the further back you go.
browningguy
Member
Absolutely. Of course you do need to keep in mind we are talking about accuracy, and sustained shooting over a couple of hours. Have you ever done that?
This would not apply to people blasting away with their AK's or M4gery's using the cheapest ammo they can buy.
MachIVshooter
Member
Agreed. Barrel heating is not cumulative in a linear fashion, and dissipation is no more predictable. I may fire 6 or 8 shots in fairly rapid succession (2 or 3 minutes) when shooting praire dogs, but then I'll switch to another rifle or wait awhile before firing again. This is not a hard and fast rule, though. Different cartridge/load/barrel combo's heat at different rates, and ambient temp/sun exposure certainly play their part. As a rule with my .220 swift, I will fire no more than 10 rounds in 5 minutes from a cold bore, and I will wait at least minute before attempting to evaluate barrel temp. The rifle is too hot to me when it becomes uncomfortable to put a finger on the barrel just forward of the chamber and hold it there with significant pressure indefinitely. This is not the same as too hot to touch; I can momentarily touch something pushing 200+* F, but firmly grabbing and holding something that is in excess of 130* F hurts.
savanahsdad
Member
when I ordered my 25WSSM I was told thats a real barrel burner , I pointed out it is in the ballpark of the 25-06 so how could that be ? he was thinking of the 223WSSM that one is pushing 3900fps , and I did some checking and about anything pushing the 4000 fps mark are barrel burners , however some of them have crome line barrels , and last way past 2000 rounds , and a lot of autos out there have crome lined barrels, my Uzi and my SKS both have crome barrels , many 1000's of round have gone through them , there was a lot of talk about this back in 2001 when the WSSM came out ,that is one of the reasons they have not gone over real big , a lot of rumors , one thing to remember, is some guys scrub the guns out with a cheap bronze brush , going back and forth, for no other reason than they think thas how you clean a gun and others that don't clean there guns at all , so it is realy hard to say how long a barrel will last, I'd bet more guns are recked buy over cleaning than by over shooting
Sustained shooting over a couple hours? Hell yes. Sustained shooting over a day? Hell yes.
And I averaged far more than 1 round every minute or more.
Apparently I just didn't know the kind of limitations some cartridges/rifles had. Good to know.
What is the relevance of this statement?
The .204 Ruger isn't a particularly high pressure cartridge, but perhaps more importantly to barrel life, it doesn't push a lot of powder, residue and combustion products through the bore. That means less to erode the throat and a less sustained burn to heat the barrel. Finally the fairly sharp shoulder helps keep the combustion inside the case instead of creeping forward into the throat area. This again helps preserve barrel life.
Conversely, the large capacity cases behind a small to medium bore will do a number on a barrel in short order. 1k isn't unheard of under normal conditions and as mentioned, sustained high rates of fire will torch even the best barrel in an afternoon with significantly fewer rounds.
Conversely, the large capacity cases behind a small to medium bore will do a number on a barrel in short order. 1k isn't unheard of under normal conditions and as mentioned, sustained high rates of fire will torch even the best barrel in an afternoon with significantly fewer rounds.
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