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Rude jerk at the range today

Discussion in 'Rallying Point and Range Discussions' started by ID-shooting, Feb 16, 2013.

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  1. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    A thief is a thief. There's nothing macho about taking a stand against a thief.

    I'm surprised: we've previously had people posting on here that it's ok to shoot a fleeing thief in the back if he's got your TV, and now we have people saying it's not ok to confront a guy who's stealing your valuable brass before you get a chance to pick it up.

    Not stopping a thief, in my book, is the same as condoning his thievery. I'm going to revise my earlier post about there being a difference between 9mm and .257 Bob. My brass is my brass. If he asks me some 9mm, he can have it for the price of picking it up. Otherwise, he's asking for problems, and he's very likely going to have some. That's not macho talk; that's just plain old right vs. wrong.
     
  2. 788Ham

    788Ham Member

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    I belong to a private club, part of our work hours commitment involves doing sight-ins before hunting seasons. Helping these folks is a fun part of this duty, make some good friends this way. When helping some one adjust scope, tighten scope rings or whatever, one will question them if they reload the ammo their shooting. Most time, no, they don't reload, "You can have the brass when I'm finished." Over 250 mty brass '06 cases came home with me in just 2 days of helping out. I sympathize with those having their brass stolen, nothing irks me more! Glad everyone placed cooler heads above all else!
     
  3. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    A person picking up what falls on the ground may be stepping outside of your social niceties, but he's not stealing your stereo. He's picking up something worth relatively very little and may have no idea that you really care. If he wants to be a jerk when you tell him you plan on keeping it, there are right and wrong ways to handle that.

    If you've seen anyone here post that shooting a fleeing thief in the back if he's got your TV (outside of a few yahoos down in TX ;)) -- and that went unchallenged, I'd be surprised.

    "Confronting" someone who is taking your brass is fine, if done appropriately. Allowing yourself to be drawn into an argument or fight -- or heaven forbid a shooting! -- over it is absolutely a failure on your part.

    He's going to have some problems? O...K. Do tell. What "problems" do you consider it appropriate to give someone for stealing the brass you dropped?

    You talking about reporting him to the range officer?

    You talking about assaulting him?

    Or are you talking about, "if you have a folder knife or firearm in sight on your person deadly force has been authorized?"
     
  4. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Member

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    No matter the endeavor/venue there appears to be a sleaze factor involved. I can’t say that it is more prevalent or I just take more notice of that behavior lately. As luck would have it I have no necessity to use a public range as I have annual membership in a private range on leased land, I’m a land owner member in another range, and have my own pistol range on my property.

    When I resided in Pennsylvania I would shoot at a state game lands range. On occasion there would be issues. The behavior of some individuals’ was such a nuisance that I sought membership in private clubs of which one was Beaver Valley Rifle & Pistol Club Inc. Private clubs have procedures to resolve issues without being confrontational.
     
  5. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Sam, the confrontation may go no further than making sure the guy knows he's in the wrong. It may escalate to a shouting match. But shooting? Not in a million years.

    And yeah, it was those Texas guys. I've got no beef with Texas besides that one.

    By "have some problems" I simply mean he's eventually going to be held accountable for his actions. Maybe not to me, but to someone who's less restrained. I want to make sure he's aware that his day of reckoning will arrive. Perhaps that will at least influence him to think about what he's doing in a new way.

    And he still can't have my Bob brass. Not that it'll be on the ground anyway.
     
  6. powderx

    powderx Member

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    Everyone surely has to remember to choose their battles wisely.

    I'm not one to generally let people walk all over me and if I did let people walk all over me I certainly wouldn't consider myself morally superior to them!

    I'm not sure what the point is to just rolling over and then complaining about it. I have my ideas on what is expected of this kind of thinking and it makes me cringe.
     
  7. joeschmoe

    joeschmoe Member

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    I like to go to my local (outdoor) range when it's raining. I'm the only one there. On a nice day it's packed.
     
  8. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    I've been shooting at public ranges (regularly) in the US for more than 20 years and I've never had anyone take my brass. I've had some ask me if I'm going to keep it but NEVER take it without asking. The "regular" brass scroungers are typically very respectful of other shooters because they've interacted with all sorts over the years and they're not looking for a confrontation. I would hazard a guess that it's just a matter of time before the individual described in the original post gets an "adjustment".
     
  9. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    I don't see a problem with making him aware that he's overstepping his bounds. Now he may feel (and there may even be a range regulation that says!) that brass on the ground is free to whomever wants it. (...or that it is property of the range owners.) That's a difference of opinion that may be settled by contacting the range staff or by simply informing him that, "Excuse me. (!) I reload and am taking my brass home with me."

    But the days of shouting matches solving anything without escalating to improper and possibly unlawful physical contact are probably gone, if they ever existed. And, as I'm sure most folks here already know, if you're in an argument that turns into a shoving match, that turns into a scuffle ... ETC, you do not get to claim self-defense. You are a mutual combatant. Mutual combatants can't say that they had a lawful justification for a use of force (instead they get "assault") or deadly force ("manslaughter").

    So, you want to tell the guy that he's erred in picking up your brass -- or even that he's being rude and needs to give you back what he took -- that should be fine.

    But if he wants to take it to the next level, if you don't back down you can absolutely find yourself drug into unlawful conduct, and neither the cops nor the jury are going to care WHO'S 50 cent piece of brass it was that started the altercation.
     
  10. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    "Shouting match" is a euphemism for something more than a gentle reminder, something less than a shootout. You're probably right that shouting would yield no positive results. But a clear exposition of the issue within earshot of others would possibly garner a backing down from the anti-doner of my brass.

    And it's not the $.50, Sam; it's the principle of right vs. wrong. Would we have differing points of view on this if the items being pilfered were sodas, cookies, chips, etc.? They're not worth a lot of money either, but I'm not gonna stand by while some guy five-fingers them from me. And neither would you, I'll bet.
     
  11. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    No, I'm with you. And that's why I say it is perfectly acceptable to make your feelings known.

    But we've had people in this very thread who --literally-- took this all the way to use of lethal force.

    We aren't enforcers, and sometimes others are willing to do unethical or even illegal things which may cause us loss. We, as law-abiding folks, have limits to our physical resistance or retribution. Sometimes we can work it out. Sometimes we might use a little verbal judo to convince (or shame) them into doing what we think is the right thing. Sometimes we can appeal to the law for redress of wrongs.

    Sometimes we have to be "the bigger man" and let it go. Not my wife, not my kids? I'm not dying for it or going to jail for it.
     
  12. jon_in_wv

    jon_in_wv Member

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    A lot of people talk a lot of trash about using lethal force and have never been faces with the situation. I have several times in the line of duty and I while I carry and train diligently I pray to God I will never have to face that situation again. Those who feel otherwise really need to grow up.
     
  13. rondog

    rondog Member

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    Considering that, depending on the caliber, a reloadable brass case can be worth from a nickle to a quarter, if you dropped a bunch of coins on the ground would anyone consider it OK to let some yahoo swoop in and start gathering them up? Buy some once-fired brass sometime, and figure how much they are apiece. Brass on the ground is no different than coins on the ground, in my opinion.
     
  14. foxs

    foxs Member

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    I would have told him pound sand.
     
  15. blaisenguns

    blaisenguns Member

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    I have one gun that brass is $2 a piece on a good day, if I can find it.
     
  16. savanahsdad

    savanahsdad Member

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    some years back I was a the county range shooting some 270's they were heading to my scrap bin after that as they were on there 8th firing and some were loaded hot in the past , I found a few that I should not have even been loaded that last time ! :eek: 270 head-sep.jpg


    when I was down changing my targets (100yards) , a guy came buy picking up brass for reloading , and when I got back to the shooting bench I saw that all my brass that hit the ground was gone , but the brass I had set on the bench was still there , , I stoped the guy and ask him what he was going to do with the brass he was picking up ? he said he was going to load it up! I then showed him some of my cracked cases , and told him the brass he had pick up off the ground (without asking) was from the same batch . he looked in his big bag of mixed brass , and said OHoooo... I said good luck with that:rolleyes: and next time ask :D
     
  17. savanahsdad

    savanahsdad Member

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    me too, shoot ,pick up brass , shoot , pick up brass , (32Rem.)
     
  18. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    I woulda been angry, too. Heck, I don't even ask if I can pick up someone else's brass. I figure that's rude, itself. Plenty of people will offer, unsolicited, when they see me picking up my own. Some will even sweep it over in a pile.

    The guy might have thought you were a scavenger, too. Seeing as you already packed away all your gear.
     
  19. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Where I shoot most frequently there are lots of people new to shooting, many just trying out various rental guns. Virtually none of them reload.

    I don't think it's rude to ask, especially when you see guy sweeping the brass around his lane into a dustpan then heading for the bin with it. Several times when I've offered to clean up after a shooter so that I can have the brass, that shooter has started asking questions about reloading, and I've taken a step toward adding another reloader to the ranks. We could discuss the downside of that (more competition for components) in another thread, but as I see it, a shooter who also reloads is more likely to support all aspects of 2A.
     
  20. Matno

    Matno Member

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    This is a situation where a cell phone can come in handy. If you immediately pull out your phone and take a picture of him and his license plate, then loudly place a call to report a theft to the police (even if you're just bluffing), he'd be likely to back off and you wouldn't be in trouble for threatening him with a weapon.
     
  21. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    You did the right thing. No way brass is worth risking serious confrontation, esp. when he is likely armed and could snap.

    Report him to the range and have him kicked out or banned for theft of your brass when you told him to stop.
     
  22. powderx

    powderx Member

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    Just because you're at a shooting range and guns are present doesn't mean they have to be used or you leave your balls at home!

    Come on now!
     
  23. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    That really stinks I am sorry to hear that jerk was messing with you.
    You did absolutely the right thing. Wife and kids come first.

    We have scavengers at the range I frequent but if you tell them what your shooting 9 times outta 10 they pick it up for you and give it to you. Nice folks, really. When i go huntin' for my brass and i find one i don't care about, i usually toss it in their bucket.
     
  24. rondog

    rondog Member

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    I'm telling y'all, get one of these and a bucket, and keep it near you when you're shooting. Every so often spend a minute and police up your brass, and put it in your bucket. Buy one of these and you'll wish you'd bought one years ago. I kid you not. Doesn't work the greatest in grass, but on hard surfaces it can't be beat. I gather brass one-handed, with a cigar or soda in the other hand, and that little basket will hold a LOT!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKwwQ5D3xco
     
  25. 12gaugeTim

    12gaugeTim Member

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    BLM master race here, no idea what you guys are talking about
     
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