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Ruger 10/22 SHTF rifle

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by 50caliber123, Jan 2, 2006.

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  1. 50caliber123

    50caliber123 Member

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    I have read these SHTF threads for a while. I pack an arsenal of weapons, but no one weapon has seen so many customizations as my 10/22. It shoots around MOA at 100yds, but I prefer to sight the scope to be about 1 1/2" high at 50yds. The gun has seen numerous upgrades, and I'll list them 1) A Harris Bipod. 2) A BSA 3-9X50 Scope. 3) A Recoil Buffer. 4) A Jumbo-sized cocking handle. 5) A Flash Suppressor. 6) A Tactical Sling. I've also purchased a variety of hi-cap mags for it. This is my arguement: Most combat occurs at ranges of 100 yards or less. If the SHTF, the 10/22 offers qualities like reliability, inexpensiveness to buy, upgrade, and maintain. No gun shop would fail to stock .22LR, and although I exclusively shoot CCI MiniMag 40grain solids, I would use other loads in a pinch. It's easy to stockpile ammo for, I have over 700 rds, with a couple thousand more well on the way (after taxes). The 10/22 is also accurate, and I know larger caliber weapons offer more stopping power and penetration, I believe shot placement is more key. I would like to hear comments. Please note: This is NOT my only SHTF weapon. I can draft others if the need arises.
     
  2. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    A .22 would be a good rifle for feeding you and your's, but not for defense unless you have nothing else. What's the bipod for?
     
  3. losangeles

    losangeles Member

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    If I only carried one, I'd go with a 12 gauge shotgun for stopping power and because it performs better under stress. (Under stress, you will have less capability to aim.)

    If I could carry two, I'd add an SKS. If it's well maintained to begin with, it is reliable. It's semi-auto and faster to load and shoot. The 7.62x39mm gives you more than a .22lr. Rounds are suprisingly inexpensive compared to like caliber so you can store a lot, and practice a lot. On the down, maybe it's not accurate at 500 yards as other high powers, but you don't really need that range with SHTF.

    If I could have a third, it'd be a handgun of larger caliber on my person. A Glock or CZ 75 will work. If I could have a fourth, it'd be another handgun.

    I've got a 10/22, also, and plan to mod it out and buy more. They're great guns. But I wouldn't feel comfortable with a 22 as SHTF gun.
     
  4. 50caliber123

    50caliber123 Member

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    the bipod is for bench target shooting, but as its a permanently mounted stock-bipod, it can be used to steady your aim
     
  5. grimjaw

    grimjaw Member

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    <humor>
    If a Ruger 10/22 is the only gun I had, then the S has really HTF.
    </humor>

    Most combat occurs at ranges of 100 yards or less. If the SHTF, the 10/22 offers qualities like reliability, inexpensiveness to buy, upgrade, and maintain. No gun shop would fail to stock .22LR, and although I exclusively shoot CCI MiniMag 40grain solids, I would use other loads in a pinch

    If the SHTF, why would anyone even take your money? The government that backed it up would have failed and the currency system would likely be bunk. Gunshops wouldn't be able to stock anything because manufacturers of ammunition were either no longer in business or only selling to groups organized enough to support the labor of manufacturing. SHTF scenarios I've seen posted on forums rarely take these things under consideration. I'm not trying to single yours out.

    The only thing I have stockpiled right now is .22LR and pistol caliber ammunition, so I'd probably HTF with the S. If I had to book it out of here, I'd want a .357 revolver, a shotgun, a .22 caliber rifle or long barrelled revolver, and if possible, a rifle chambered for .243 or higher in bolt or lever action. I don't want to be forced to rely on a .22 rifle only. I'd put my eggs in another basket, given the choice. YM will certainly V.

    jmm
     
  6. MatthewVanitas

    MatthewVanitas Member

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    Another vote for .22 over 12ga

    Though I don't see all of 50's upgrades as necessary (except a good sling), I think he has a pretty solid point. A .22 is lightweight and easy handling, and makes it easy to acquire and carry tons of ammo.

    I've been meaning to write a full thread on this, but I strongly disagree with the "a shotgun is a great SHTF weapon". It's heavy and bulky, the ammo is frickin' huge, and the range is terrible. People go on and on about how versatile it is, but in an emergency situation I don't want to have to juggle three barrels and fifteen kinds of ammo, much less hump them across the post-apocalyptic landscape.

    I particularly argue that 12ga would be terrible for hunting in a survival situation. Hunting pheasant in season vs. surviving are very different things. A .22LR would be great for pot-shooting birds on the ground or water. Folks seem to indicate that poachers love .22 in many parts of the country. Can't recall which writer pointed out: "in a survival situation, the first rule is to break every rule ever made by Fish and Game agencies."

    Clearly, the SHTF argument has been done to death, and the main conclusion I've drawn from reading them is that nobody (myself included) has much way of knowing what might happen, and different circumstances might change your selection to a great degree. The item of choice during Katrina would seem to be a sturdy pistol that you could tuck under your coat to prevent confiscation.

    Anyway...

    (Though I do agree w/ Sunray that the bipod seems pretty unnecessary, just extra weight)

    Oh, and not to pick on you, but 700rd of .22 doesn't begin to approach stockpile *grin*!

    -MV
     
  7. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    I wouldnt take my chances shooting hostile humans with a 22 rimfire. Its like heading into bear country with a 9mm handgun. Most hits are going to result in increased rather than decreased agressiveness on the part of the attacker.
     
  8. colt.45

    colt.45 Member

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    flash supperssor

    why in the hell would you get a flash supperssor for a gun with out any flash. i cant think of what SHTF means but if you mean a battle rifle you can forget it. it is just not logical when other armies are using high powered rifles to swich to something 1/10th of their power, we are alreidy having power problems with the rifles we have. you must have gotten lucky with being able to get 1moa because mine my brothers and my papas along with others will only shoot around 4moa. it isnt as reliabe as you think either, you may have not cleaned it in a while but that is no where near the needs of a military rifle. oh and the range for killing a human is only about 100 yards and most of the attacks hapening now are doing so beyond 300 yards
     
  9. colt.45

    colt.45 Member

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    oh for survival it is great, you can bag squirrels all day wit em.
     
  10. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    A 10/22 modified to be all tactical is a great thing for a kid to be into. Nothing made me happier than putting new toys on the 10/22 in high school.

    That said, grown men who wish to employ a rifle for self defesnse (which is pretty much implied by SHTF) should abandon the 10/22 for something with more knockdown power.

    First, the 10/22 with a factory barrel isnt that accurate. Definitely giving the AK a run for its money. 1/2MOA at 10-20 yards probably

    The 10/22 has a worse trajectory than the AK47. Far less muzzle velocity coupled with relatively bad BC make the 22LR a very inadequate long range cartridge. The 7.62x39 is not a paragon of accuracy or high muzzle velocity, so this is a huge problem for shot placement.

    Basically if you can hit someone and hurt them with 22LR and they have a gun, it is likely they will respond in a more effective manner because essentially everything in the handgun and rifle world outclasses the 22LR for accuracy and combat effectiveness. If you are really, really short on cash and absolutely need a SHTF weapon, get a old enfield or mauser. Those cheap old guns reward shot placement, and they definitely got the job done.
     
  11. 50caliber123

    50caliber123 Member

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    I have other rifles. I have an enfield #5mk1, which I'm trying to get fixed, a kar98k (all worn-out from WW2), a marlin .44MAG 1894, a Mosin-Nagant M38 (My cheap disposable gun, although its in mint cond.), a Hi-point 995 (my favorite for a pistol caliber carbine), and my Yugo M59/66 sks (My primary battle rifle) and a swiss k31 in layaway. I just don't view the 10/22 as being completely useless. I also have the factory barrel. At the pre-mentioned range of 10-20yards, well at 25 yards I get 1/4 groups with the bipod deployed. If you do your part, it'll be accurate, under 100yards. As for combat shots being at 300 yards, I believe that yes, in the modern battlefield of the middle east they are at least that. But a SHTF scenario that I would see in this country would probably be in a more urban setting or densely populated rural area.
     
  12. Clark

    Clark Member

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    SHTF, that's when my wife finds out I bought rifle #200.
     
  13. grimjaw

    grimjaw Member

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    But a SHTF scenario that I would see in this country would probably be in a more urban setting or densely populated rural area.

    I agree, see Katrina as a recent example. But that's precisely why I'd rather get the heck out of Dodge rather than stay in a city where something like the crap in New Orleans could happen. Plenty of people saw it coming and left. Better to plan for bugging out of an urban area than digging in, if at all possible, IMO.

    SHTF, that's when my wife finds out I bought rifle #200. :D

    I'm getting there, slowly but surely.

    jmm
     
  14. MatthewVanitas

    MatthewVanitas Member

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    The "modern battlefield of the middle east" isn't exactly Patton vs Rommel out in the open desert. While ambushes of convoys can occur in sparser areas, and IEDs (roadside bombs) can be found out in the middle of nowhere, a huge portion of rifle vs. rifle action is urban. Attacking U.S. troops out in the open desert would be suicide; an ability to conceal themselves in the population, and American's distaste for collateral damage, are among the insurgents' best weapons. Urban warfare leans heavily on both those facts.

    Though luckily for you, that's an even better argument for a .22LR. But since nobody can possibly agree on what a SHTF situation might be, we're going to get every reccommendation for a .338 Lapua "sniper rifle" to a .22 snub-nosed revolver for "urban partisan ops" as the ideal SHTF firearm.

    I put SHTF up there with the "what gun for zombie" threads, but still better than the bears/snakes threads.

    -MV
     
  15. bogie

    bogie Member

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    The 10/22 is only tactical if you paint it camoflage _and_ black, and spring for a suppressor barrel.

    Otherwise, it's just a darn nice little rifle that you've bolted too much crap onto...

    Personally, I could see handing out a few 10/22s to neighbors in times of gnarstiness. They're cheap, the ammo is cheap (and I got plenty of it...), and having half a dozen folks who are somewhat aiming unload on you at 100 yards while you're trying to use your Birdman homeboy sights is likely to be highly discouraging.
     
  16. Dave Markowitz

    Dave Markowitz Member

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    I love my 10/22. Really. But as a defensive arm it lacks power especially if you have better weapons available. .22 LR cannot be depended upon to put down a rabid racoon that weighs all of 15 lbs (BTDT) so how can it be depended upon to reliably stop an agressive person?

    If you must rely on a rimfire for defense at least get a .22 Magnum, but even a 9mm carbine is much better.

    Where the .22 shines is as a weapon for foraging.
     
  17. assegai

    assegai member

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    Why help those who wouldn't even buy their own .22?

    If they are that lazy and short sighted, I don't want them anywhere around me. They aren't supporting the Second Amendment, that's for sure.
     
  18. wickedsprint

    wickedsprint Member

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    I can't believe the people who think this would make a bad rifle, if it shoots one MOA who cares what the other guy is using, if you get a .22 to the face, your agressivness will be GONE. You may not kill the attacker with the first shot but good shotplacment WILL immobilize them.
     
  19. 50caliber123

    50caliber123 Member

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    I considered getting a Ruger 10/22 in .22Magnum, but you can't use hicapity mags (you're limited to 9 shots), Ammo is harder to find, and its more expensive. Is there really that much of a difference in stopping power with .22 Mag?
     
  20. Huntzman

    Huntzman Member

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    Underpowered

    One thing that needs to be considered, and which I don't think has been mentioned, is weather. In a perfect world, your enemy would stand still and present a perfect head shot target for you. :neener: Then again, in a perfect world the S would not have HTF. So assume he is trrying to avoid you, as much as you are him. Ducking, dodging, scrambling, and generally trying to make a poor target for him. If it's winter, and everyone is bundled up don't expect those 22's to penetrate dense clothing. :banghead: I'd rate the .22 for putting small game on the table, but at have a battle rifle for the tough times.
     
  21. jobu07

    jobu07 Member

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    Do you have any links or sources for this info? Or is it just heresay and rhetoric?
     
  22. 50caliber123

    50caliber123 Member

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    It probably sounds like heresay, but I heard it on the history channel. Apparently, there have been studies done by the US military and other governments. A lot of thought went into the STG44 that spawned the AK. German designers figured that almost all combat occurs within 300 yards. I persoanlly feel that anything beyond 100 yards is not a serious threat. Shooting someone at the range can hardly be ruled as self defense. Only when you are fired upon or have verified beyond a reasonable doubt that the target is hostile can you shoot someone at that distance. I started this thread really in defense of the .22LR. It can work, but there are better choices.
     
  23. shane justice

    shane justice Member

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    Yeah Buddy!

    I agree with you guys...

    10/22 is a damn fine plinker...small game and such.

    Better to save your money...buy a set of Talley rings and a good Luepold scope ( a good 2X7 Rifleman will run $185.00) and have fun shooting the hell out of it....why you need a flash hider and buffer and all that lot is beyond me...and what the hell is a "TACTICAL" sling doing on a .22LR?

    As for a SHTF rifle....lots of surplus rifles avaiable that will handle the job better....

    Shane
     
  24. losangeles

    losangeles Member

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    That's cool if someone is a super Seal or other, but most people in periods of stress have substantially diminished aiming capability. A 12 gauge gives more room for error with the aiming capability.
     
  25. jeremywills

    jeremywills Member

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    HEHEHEHE, SHTF threads are so funny sometimes

    If and only if I had to use the old Stevens/Savage .22 rifle of mine I would, but the Mosin M44 or the Taurus 9mm are my other 2 options and definately would be utilized first. The .22 as an extreme last resort option. Its amazing what peoples SHTF interpertations are. In my mind, the SHTF when I have an uninvited guest in my place at 2am trying to steal the TV or something. You guys go off on nuclear winter wastelands full of zombies and rabid monkeys running amuck LMAO :)

    FWIW, some form of a firearm, even a .22 of some flavor is better than nothing at all and if the need presented itself, I would not hesistate to throw as many .22's as needed someones way.

    I would prefer it to be a slightly larger piece of lead though ;) and perhaps a bit louder :D

    Hopefully I can get that 12 guage mossberg shotty at the end of the week I have in layaway so I can have that too for just in case. That is definately a larger piece of lead with a slug in the pipe and would make a bit more noise I would think ;)
     
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