Ruger Mini-14 2-Shot Okay... BATF!

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Badger Arms, Jan 30, 2004.

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  1. AgentOrange

    AgentOrange Member

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    dos anyone know where i might be able to find that video of the guy showing how to do this?
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2007
  2. Badger Arms

    Badger Arms Member

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    I can get you the video, however I'm in a very hot, dusty place against my will till September. The video won't help you, but the BATFE technology branch in Washington sent me the letter. I'd have your lawyer subpena them.
     
  3. AgentOrange

    AgentOrange Member

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    could please do me a favor and post the link again, i can check back in .
     
  4. Badger Arms

    Badger Arms Member

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    There is no link. I have the video on my hard drive back in the States. The site it was hosted on didn't work right, but I managed to get a copy of it before he disappeared and took it down.
     
  5. Houston Tom

    Houston Tom Member

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    Badger,

    I would like to see the video when you can get back and post it. stay safe and keep your head down
     
  6. MisterPX

    MisterPX Member

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    I hope none of the knuckleheads who try this will sue teh firearm manufacturer when tehy have a negligent discharge into themeself, or worse, others.
     
  7. sansone

    sansone Member

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    unsafe but interesting. wouldn't own one myself, we are not expecting a gun to fire upon release of the trigger. an accident is sure to happen
     
  8. Badger Arms

    Badger Arms Member

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    This whole subject of 'accidental discharges' really annoys me. The Winchester 97, Model 12, and the Ithaca 37 would all discharge when the slide was forward with pressure kept on the trigger. You hear of occassional ND's, however not a plague and certainly not hordes of dimwits suing the manufacturer. It's smiple, pull the trigger, release the trigger. I've shot the Ithaca for years and have NEVER had an ND because I was too stupid to pull the finger off the trigger. Heck, the SLIDE makes that gun go off. IMNTBHO, those guns are MORE dangerous. Not that they are dangerous, just that you have to understand the manual of arms. You do know that in order to disassemble a Glock or Springfield XD, you have to pull trigger, right?
     
  9. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    The difference is, those guns don't commit you to a second shot after the first shot is fired.

    If you are shooting at any distance other than pretty close range, the second shot will be an automatic miss if you release the trigger immediately, and the requirement to immediately let the second round fly would prevent you from having a decent follow-through (thereby making your first shot worse, as well). If you hold the second shot to speed up your transitions, you open up the whole "now what do I do with it" can of worms.

    IMHO, a mod that screws up your long-range shooting, slows down your target-to-target transitions (by adding a second recoil pulse, and requiring the gun to hang onto each target for the second shot), and is only faster than a conventional "hammer" by a small fraction of a second if you do need to shoot twice, isn't something I'd want on any of my guns, even if somebody paid me to let them install it.

    To me, the primary rationale for it would be to slightly reduce your split times when firing hammers on close-range targets in a defensive situation. But to me, the drawbacks outweigh any advantages, and I'm not even considering the civil liability issues in a defensive shooting (egads).
     
  10. MudPuppy

    MudPuppy Member

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    over on the files or one of the other AK build sites, a guy has been working on a selector that'll function as safe, normal, and pull/release fire.

    I'm a bit concerned about the safety myself and wouldn't likely do this if I had to give up traditional firing ability altogether, but might be inclined to tinker with an optional, selector setup. If i did, it'd more likely be via a special fcg that I wouldn't leave in the gun--just to prevent me from forgeting or surprising another operator of the rifle.

    Prior to the government regulations that made it so incredibly difficult to tinker, Americans tended to be innovative and were capable of engineering new systems and technologies. If Moses Browning were alive today, I wonder what he'd be doing--not designing revolutionary firearms, I'd bet.
     
  11. S&WKING

    S&WKING Member

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    if any body has a paintball gun or knows alot about them the tippmann 98c has this mode they call it the response trigger and its alot of fun if u can show me how to do this to a mini then lmk
     
  12. The Deer Hunter

    The Deer Hunter Member

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    Kind off topic there 'eh?
     
  13. MudPuppy

    MudPuppy Member

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    Not really, the autoresponse is a trigger that fires with a pull and again with a release--which is exactly what we're talking about. Point being is that this isn't new tech or unproven, but a different application.

    I wonder how many folks have been unintentionally shot with those autoresponses? You'd think a plenty.
     
  14. richardschennberg

    richardschennberg Member

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    It's no more dangerous than a release trigger. If you decide you don't want the second shot, you have to remove the magazine and eject the round from the chamber. That takes some dexterity to do with your finger on the trigger and the gun pointed in a safe direction. Anyone not confident in their ability to do this should not use a dual-sequence or release trigger.
    Richard
    Schennberg.com
     
  15. Gila Jorge

    Gila Jorge Member

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    Release triggers have been used by trap shooters and pigeon shooters for many year...guns are always marked...you can get off two shots faster and with no flinching with a release/pull....you release for the first shot and pull for the second on an over/under...quick as greased lightening....but you are right...if you get interrupted what do you do...you freeze and break open the gun...in this case an over/under....otherwise you have a dangerous situation..
     
  16. Sir Aardvark

    Sir Aardvark Member

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    We should call this the Zombie Thread - it keeps getting resurrected.

    the 2-shot thing would be pretty cool, though.
     
  17. Px2

    Px2 Member

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    Good thread. Resurrecting it again. First post here, so thanks for having me!

    I just heard and read about the shoestring method recently and relayed the story to an old shooting buddy. He then told me about the staple and showed me one of his videos. Of course I had to do some Googling for the legalities on the staple to see if it fell into the same 'MG' nonsense as the string. All I have found is this thread. Seems to be a fairly unknown method.

    From what I can see, it's reliable. He was using factory magazines, and I have no idea if that was a real factor in it, but any Mini owner knows what non-Ruger mags can be like.

    Anyways, I brought the video home so I could play with it. It's a bit fuzzy but I was able to load it up, slow it down, and zoom in well enough to try to count the RoF. The only good, solid firing section that had audio and video in the same scene shows me that the rifle fired at least 8-10 rounds per second, or 480-600 per minute, if my math is correct. I believe the AC556 is capable of over 700 per minute, so I don't know what could actually be done with just the staple method.

    One thing is for sure- It looks like fun. If for no other reason, it's certainly a file worthy of the Rainy Day Knowledge Bank.

    As for safety... I figure if you're forgetful enough that the 'second shot will happen' fact slips your mind that easily, you probably shouldn't be handling a rifle in the first place. I can't imagine someone just setting it up and leaving it that way. But.... Stranger things have happened.

    As of now, the video is only on my hard drive, but if anyone shows real interest, I'll load up a light file and post a link.
     
  18. Badger Arms

    Badger Arms Member

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    Thanks for the reply. I'd love to see the video. Theoretically, rate can be higher using the 2-shot staple. The reason for this is that the AC-556 uses a disconnector that is tripped by the bolt locking, therefore there is a pause after that for the hammer to fall. I don't think it's a big deal, because realized cyclic rate is going to be lower unless you're really good at keeping a rhythm. Otherwise, what happens is that while your sustained rate may be, say, 600rpm, your shot-to-shot rates might be 1,000 or higher rpm. You can pull the trigger and release it faster than you can release it and pull it, understand? You end up with a string that sounds like "bang-bang...bang-bang...bang-bang...etc."
     
  19. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    Would this work on a deerfield?
     
  20. takhtakaal

    takhtakaal Member

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    I'm not sure why people are so afraid of this, given the fact that three-round burst modes require a trigger pull. Is it just the release bit? Who holds the trigger back like that anyway? If so, make a mental note to release immediately, always, to put the two rounds in almost simultaneously. Seems almost like folks want some sort of remorseful way to have their burst-fire cake, and eat it, too.
     
  21. Px2

    Px2 Member

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    OK. Give me some time to piece one together and slap it on YouTube or elsewhere and I'll let you know.
     
  22. Badger Arms

    Badger Arms Member

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  23. Dionysusigma

    Dionysusigma Member

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    Could've done without the ski mask. Kinda creepy. :uhoh:
     
  24. Spyvie

    Spyvie Member

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    Could do without this whole thread for the same reason.
     
  25. silverlance

    silverlance Member

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    in the video, Troll has to charge the firearm when he didnt release the trigger fast enough, am I correct?
     
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