Ruger SBH without leading

[Catpop]

(I post this under revolvers as it involves a specific revolver)

I'm starting a new quest to see if my brand spanking new 44 rem mag Ruger 7.5" SBH will shoot 50 rounds without excessive leading.

Initially this quest will identify if a new off the shelf Ruger SBH will digest commercially available lead cartridges without excessive barrel leading and if not, can it be reloaded with commercially available components to do same.

Info needed
1. Any commercially available (off the shelf) 44 remington mag. lead bullet cartridges. I need to know of any that you know are avaliable or have personally fired.

2. Reloads assembled with commercially available cast (conventually lubed, no pc, gas checks, or home cast ) boolits.

Variables will include all normal reloading components- powder, primers, cases, oal, etc.

Step One!!!! Since powder is one of the greatest variables in assembling a reload, I am asking for this threads PERSONAL EXPERIENCE in best powders for reloading cast boolit in the 44 rem mag., specifically with 7.5" Ruger SBH.

I think of and have used Unique, Universal, 2400, imr 4227, BE, RD, HS-6, AA5 to name a few.

I lean toward Unique or universal, but need your advice on which powder to begin this quest.

Thank you in advance for your comments.

 

[MaxP]

One of my favorite commercial .44 mag loads is by Double Tap and consists of a 320 grain WFN that runs right around 1,300 fps or thereabouts.

 

[murf]

300 gn cast performance bullet (gas checked), 21.0 gn h110 powder, cci 350 primer, heavy crimp. no leading because of the gas check. velocity through the chrony is about 1400 fps out of my sbh. grizzly cartridge co. sells this bullet.

luck,

murf

 

[FN in MT]

What are your chamber diameters at the front of the cylinder, the cylinder THROATS? That will decide what DIAMETER cast slug to load. If You don't have access to pin gauges...Can You push a .429" slug through the throats easily, or not at all? A .430", etc.

Ideally your loaded slug should be +.001" larger than your cyl throats.

What velocity ? You want your lead slugs to be just hard enough to allow the base of the slug to push outward when hit by the initial pressure, thereby SEALING the base of the slug against the bore. The vast majority of commercial cast bullets are FAR too hard, unless one is loading maximum pressure loads. You WILL get leading as the hot powder gasses flame cut the sides of the slug, depositing that lead, nicely along your bore.

You would be surprised at how soft you can go, with proper lube, and be lead free.

This all sound complex but a properly lubed, proper hardness slug, that fits your particular revolver, should not result in leading. UNLESS you have bore issues, such as pitting, a constriction, etc.

http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm All You need to know about cast slugs in handguns. Good Luck

 

[FN in MT]

I use a Keith style, 255 gr slug, at .430" diameter, over 8.0 of Unique, any standard primer in a mag case for a field load. Velocity depending on barrel length 950-1K fps.

For a .44 hunting load I use a 275 gr cast slug over 22.0 of current 2400 and a WW LP std/mag primer. This is in a 6" Freedom Arms, so your SBH should be fine with it as well.

 

[Sam1911]

What are your chamber diameters at the front of the cylinder, the cylinder THROATS? That will decide what DIAMETER cast slug to load. If You don't have access to pin gauges...Can You push a .429" slug through the throats easily, or not at all? A .430", etc.

Ideally your loaded slug should be +.001" larger than your cyl throats.

What velocity ? You want your lead slugs to be just hard enough to allow the base of the slug to push outward when hit by the initial pressure, thereby SEALING the base of the slug against the bore. The vast majority of commercial cast bullets are FAR too hard, unless one is loading maximum pressure loads. You WILL get leading as the hot powder gasses flame cut the sides of the slug, depositing that lead, nicely along your bore.

You would be surprised at how soft you can go, with proper lube, and be lead free.

This all sound complex but a properly lubed, proper hardness slug, that fits your particular revolver, should not result in leading

I'm quoting all of this because it's just fantastic advice.

When starting out to experiment as you are doing, you start by measuring what you've got. Picking components and taking a best guess is just a crap shoot until you know where you are starting from.

And if your throats are too tight, GET THEM REAMED. Make your gun right and all else will follow.

50 rds is nothing. You should be able to get many hundreds down range without leading problems.

 

[RPRNY]

Any correctly sized, has checked, alloy bullet appropriately matched to the intended velocity with decent sized lube grooves will work in any correctly functioning revolver without leading.

Correctly sized: what is your barrel's groove diameter. Correct bullet size is .001-.002" over groove diameter.

Correct alloy: assuming a MV of 1200 -1400 you want a BHN of at least 15. A heat treated alloy will suffice. Linotype may be too hard.

If buying commercial bullets, any decent heat treated bullets should be lubed appropriately. Matts Bullets, Beartooth Bullets, Montana Bullet Works. All reliable.

 

[Cump]

My Redhawk has done well with HSM "Cowboy Action" 240 gr SWC.

 

[Catpop]

Lots of good advice and info. Thanks!


But im only asking for the powder of choice for cast boolit 44 mag reloading.

So far only factory loaded cartridges are
1. 320 gr double tap

And commercial bullets are
1. 300 gr grizzly gas check (I edited thread to exclude pc and gas checks after murf post)

And powders are
1. Unique
2. 2400

Again thanks a bunch!!!!

 

[Catpop]

My Redhawk has done well with HSM "Cowboy Action" 240 gr SWC.

Is that a factory cartridge or a cast boolit?

 

[drband]

Unique @ 7.5 gr with a 240gr LSWC is my favorite load. I started with MBC bullets conventional lubed. Unique is great for these revolvers (my SBH 7.5" barrel) and can be safely pushed up to mid magnum levels. I worked up in .5gr increments up to 10.5 gr loads. They all shot well with little to no leading. If I want more I go to W296/H110.
I also shot these same bullets with 23.5 W296 for full power magnum loads. Worked well.

Although I now use MBC Hitek coated bullets (cleaner to handle and no lube smoke), the plain cast bullets were just fine. I prefer the 12BHN bullets for both powders but the 18BHN works well for hotter loads according to some folks. Didn't seem to matter for me!

 

[MaxP]

Catpop, Grizzly Cartridge has a 300 and 320 grain offering that are really good as are Garrett Cartridge's and Buffalo Bore's cast loads. Look at Underwood's loads as well. All of the aforementioned are good cast .44 Mag loads.

 

[Cump]

Is that a factory cartridge or a cast boolit?

Hsm used to use once fired brass, iirc. Now they use starline. Bullet is advertised on their site as hardcast, but I'm not sure of the hardness.

Ive had good luck with them in a variety of revolver and auto chamberings.

 

[Sunray]

Leading is caused by trying to drive a cast bullet too fast. It has nothing to do with the specific firearm. Nor does the hardness matter.
Any factory or commercially reloaded cast bullet will be loaded to SAAMI spec and will be fine in your Ruger. Hodgdon shows several powders that start at a tick over 1100 FPS with a cast bullet.
Midway shows HSM, Grizzly and Double Tap as loading cast bullets. Big ones. 300, 305 and 320 grains.

 

[Sam1911]

Leading is caused by trying to drive a cast bullet too fast. It has nothing to do with the specific firearm. Nor does the hardness matter.

I'd disagree on several points.
1) Velocity itself isn't the problem, but pressure is. Pressure has to be reasonably matched to bullet hardness in order to obdurate the bullet and seal the bore. Read why and how here: https://missouribullet.com/technical.php Too much hardness for the pressure you're using is bad. Too soft a bullet for a high-pressure load can also be bad.

2) Leading certainly CAN be caused/exacerbated by the circumstances of a specific firearm. The classic case is that of a revolver with throats that are tighter than the bore diameter, swageing the bullet down smaller as it passes through the throats and then trying to obdurate it back up to seal the bore. That will cause a lot of leading as the undersized bullet will let a lot of hot gas blow by.

 

[Walkalong]

Correct Sam, why Sunray continues to post that is beyond me.

 

[Ru4real]

I agree with Sam. In my experience a different powder at the same velocity with the same bullet and same gun can produce no leading. For me, Brinell 18 at 1100 fps, CFE Pistol resulted leading and Universal did not. There are so many variables. I think 18 is too hard for 1100 fps, by the way. CFE Pistol was probably gas cutting the side of the bullet as it went down my bore.

My advice is to pick the shape and weight bullet you want (e.g. 300 gr LBT for hunting crimped at groove) and play with powders and primers until you get the performance at the range (e.g. velocity, accuracy, no leading, recoil) that you want. Missouri can custom diameter and hardness if standard doesn't work for you.

I'm making the assumption that your gun is good (throats, bore, barrel-cylinder gap).

 

[joneb]

It is hard to find a cast bullet without a gas check that won't lead a red hawk with over sized cylinder throats.
Why can't Ruger get it???

 

[Sam1911]

Oversized throats? I'd expect undersized to be more of a problem. At least if they're under it's easy enough to get them reamed to the right size.

Of course, "most" shooters buy a gun and run a few jacketed factory rounds through it each year, so they never know or care about this. It isn't a big enough problem for Ruger to be more careful because not enough people ever see the problem, and far fewer understand the problem, so there's very little pressure on Ruger to spend more money per gun and rectify it. Tooling lasts longer, and has to be replaced less frequently, if you can accept a bit of dimensional error in the product.

 

[Catpop]

Oversized throats? I'd expect undersized to be more of a problem. At least if they're under it's easy enough to get them reamed to the right size.

Of course, "most" shooters buy a gun and run a few jacketed factory rounds through it each year, so they never know or care about this. It isn't a big enough problem for Ruger to be more careful because not enough people ever see the problem, and far fewer understand the problem, so there's very little pressure on Ruger to spend more money per gun and rectify it. Tooling lasts longer, and has to be replaced less frequently, if you can accept a bit of dimensional error in the product.

This resulted in my 357 problem. Too large a groove size, namely .3595, but that's another quest just finished and yet to be posted.

 

[BSA1]

Before starting lead bullets tune-up your gun.

Have a gunsmith recut the forcing cone on the barrel to 11 degrees. This gentler angle will result in less leading around the forcing cone.

I shoot lead bullets almost exclusively in my revolvers and lead in the barrel in usually the result of factors other than pushing the bullet to fast.

 

[Cump]

It is hard to find a cast bullet without a gas check that won't lead a red hawk with over sized cylinder throats.
Why can't Ruger get it???

Iirc ruger had some undersized 45 lc throats, but their 44 mags are pretty consistent at the original spec, which is larger than what smith uses. .4305, which is where my redhawk specs at. And I think it must be a good spot because I can find loads that work for both .430 and .431 bullets (which I have on hand). The latter just need to be chambered with intention.

My redhawk also likes the Hornady .430 xtp.