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Ruger Security 9, Walther PPS, Sig p365 which to get?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Ralph III, May 26, 2019.

  1. Ralph III

    Ralph III Member

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    Hello All,
    New member here so hello! I am trying to pick out a 9mm ccw and would like some input.

    First I've been shooting for over 46yrs (since 7yrs old) so I have a lot of experience with handguns and rifles. I only have limited experience with striker fired guns though. I've been attempting to settle on a concealed carry weapon for a while now but none are available to shoot locally. So your thoughts are appreciated.

    Anyhow, I have several Bersa Thunder 380's which I consider to be excellent guns and some of the most accurate I've ever shot. I love these guns and I am a fan of Bersa. These are DA/SA hammer fired. They have a really smooth trigger with a crisp break. The trigger is one of my main considerations because I am accustomed to being highly accurate. So my inquiry is mostly in regards to the trigger action on these guns and how you feel they serve as a ccw.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I recently purchased a Bersa Bp9cc. The two biggest features which tilted in its favor over other guns is it is very thin (good for cc) and the trigger gets rave reviews. It is a nice gun but I personally found the trigger to be poor despite being a 4.5# pull, sorry. It is not smooth and consequently I cannot be precise with it. The service center is looking at it at the moment but I really think it is just an inherent feature of it's striker fired mechanism.

    Consequently I am considering the following now.....

    1. Walther PPS. This and the Bersa Bp9cc were my top two initial considerations. The trigger is supposed to be excellent on the PPS. Any input in that regards and to it's accuracy and concealability?

    2. Sig Sauer p365. Quite honestly I didn't come across this for my initial considerations. It is extremely interesting being so small; however does it's size cause it to be really snappy and does accuracy suffer due to it's size? Also, what is the trigger like at the range?

    3. Ruger Security 9 "compact". Ok, this one is really jumping at me! It is a hammer fired pistol with a SA trigger. Man, I can only imagine it is really smooth? Is that the case and how does it carry for ccw work?

    4. Kahr? These fit a lot of my criteria but they are lower capacity with longer and heavier trigger pulls. I can get night sights with my top pics at excellent prices as well. So the Kahrs seem low on my list unless someone can convince me they are better than the above?

    A few things high on my criteria are as follows.
    *Something around 1in wide. I can go thinner but I really don't want anything much wider at all.
    *A smooth trigger pull and around 5lbs or 5.5 lbs. It can be even lower but I really don't desire anything any heavier minus a viable trigger modification.
    *Something preferably around 6in in length. I can go slightly longer or shorter.
    *Something around 20oz in weight. 18oz to 22oz is acceptable.




    Again, your input is appreciated.

    God Bless,
    Ralph
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  2. unclenunzie
    • Contributing Member

    unclenunzie Contributing Member

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    Of the three candidates you have in mind I have direct experience with only the PPS (in 40SW). The trigger is very crisp and short, and the gun is very thin which I find important for concealment. I carried mine daily for several years.

    The Ruger Security 9 trigger system is based on the LCP II. I have an LCP II and carry it when I want something small. The trigger is short, the pull is light, but has noticeable (smooth) creep as the hammer cams back the last few degrees. For such a small gun I find it very accurate, and would speculate the larger Sec-9 would be similar or maybe even better.

    Not on your list but considering your statement - "I have several Bersa Thunder 380's which I consider to be excellent guns and some of the most accurate I've ever shot. I love these guns and I am a fan of Bersa. These are DA/SA hammer fired. They have a really smooth trigger with a crisp break. The trigger is one of my main considerations because I am accustomed to being highly accurate."

    I have a Thunder 380 and several Kahrs. I think you might like a Kahr of the 7+1 variety - P9, CW9, etc. These are striker fired and have excellent smooth triggers - very much like a well tuned revolver. Similar to the Bersa Thunder DA pull, just as crisp but shorter (not as short as typical striker fired). When I got my PM9 I was amazed at how accurate it was - put a wide smile on my face.
     
  3. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm Member

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    I have a Sig P365, yes it can be very snappy with hot ammo. Any 9mm that small will be.

    Since the P365 doesn't have a manual safety nor a trigger flipper it has a trigger pull more like a good short DA revolver.

    I have no problems with the trigger at the range. The P365 is also very accurate.
     
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  4. Browning

    Browning Member

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    I own a PPS (I own a Mod 1, owned a previous Mod 1 and a Mod 2) and I’ve at least shot the Ruger in question.

    I’ve had good luck with the Walther’s and I thought the Ruger was pretty good.
     
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  5. vba

    vba Member

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    I own the PPS M2 and like it very much. Trigger is good for me and in my hands the gun is very accurate.

    The PPS M2 is a slightly bigger gun than say the P365 which to me is too small in the grip. I prefer a larger frame size for ease of shooting.
     
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  6. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    I have no experience with the PPS but I have a PPQ M1 that I like very much. Probably larger than you are looking to carry, there is a subcompact version that may be worth a look.
    They are fully ambidextrous and the trigger is about as good as it gets for a striker.
    I am very happy with my P365. It is a very nice shooter for such a small gun. I was not expecting to like it as much as I do, normally preferring larger handguns.
     
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  7. Ralph III

    Ralph III Member

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    Thanks for the quick responses and keep them coming!

    Yes, yes. I had considered the Kahr p9 Unclenunzie!. In fact, I thought about including it in my list but it lagged behind in a few features compared to the others.

    1) First, I cannot stand the single dot rear sight on the p9. Can those be changed out for night sights and at what cost? The Walther PPS m2 Le and Sig come with night sights already at an acceptable price.
    2) The p9 has a longer trigger pull and as I recall a heavier trigger pull? Can you confirm and comment on that. How does it compare to the Walther PPS? I really desire something around 5.5lbs or lower.
    3) The Kahr has less capacity than the others unless you go with the extended magazine which is hideous looking.
    4) Lastly, I somewhat desire something with an external safety. This is low on my criteria though because 95% of the time the safety would be disengaged. There are just a few instances when I may desire to have it engaged though (hiking, Church security). But no deal breaker here. A good holster and proper habits are most important.

    Tell me more about the Kahrs though and how they compare to the Walther PPS. Do you have the PPS m2 version? The Kahr looks great and it checks off with most of my criteria with exception of above.

    Thanks,
    Ralph
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  8. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Havent really tried the other two, as I dont do plastic guns, but my daughter has a PPS and I have to admit is pretty darn nice. Super slim, easy controls, eats anything you feed it. Would not hesitate to carry one.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
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  9. <*(((><
    • Contributing Member

    <*(((>< Contributing Member

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    Another to keep in mind (it’s soon to be released) is the Sig 365xl.

    I’m going to get one when they become available, and started a thread on it.
    https://thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/sig-p365xl.851720/page-2#post-11139015

    Of the ones you posted about, I have experience with the Walther PPS M2, it has a nice trigger but like most single stack 9mm was too narrow in the grip for my liking.

    Like gets suggested here often if you can find some to rent or know someone who owns one, there is no substitute for actual first hand experiences when it comes to handguns.
     
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  10. Ralph III

    Ralph III Member

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    Hello FF-Man,
    Yes, as I have read the PPQ trigger is the standard for striker fired guns. How does the PPQ trigger compare to the p365 trigger? Is one better/smoother than the other? How accurate do you find the p365 to be? I mean what is the best groupings you are capable of getting (free hand) at 30ft? Can you consistantly hit center mass at 80ft? Does it point naturally and can you follow up quickly? How is it with rapid fire? All in comparison to the Walther PPQ.

    God Bless,
    Ralph

    My
     
  11. Ralph III

    Ralph III Member

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    Thanks for the input. I am also really interested in the Ruger Security 9 compact if anyone can elaborate on that particular gun also.

    Thanks,
    Ralph
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
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  12. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    The only striker I know of with a trigger that rivals to the PPQ is the Steyr A1. Both are excellent and I can't decide which is better.
    The P365 trigger is not as good but still a very nice trigger. Mine seemed to improve some after about 1000 rounds plus a bunch of dry firing. Reset is short with a nice audible click.
    For me it points very well and is a soft shooter for such a small gun. It can't compete with the PPQ at the range but that isn't my purpose for it.
    This morning I shot 10 rounds offhand (with the 365) at my 80 yard steel plate (18 inch), 7 hits.
    This is 10 yards with the PPQ top and P365 below. Not rapid fire but I would guess under 7 seconds and using self defense level loads.
    IMG_2281.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  13. unclenunzie
    • Contributing Member

    unclenunzie Contributing Member

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    1) My PM9 and PM40 both wear dovetailed night sights from the factory. I too don't care for the vertical dot-on-dot sites.
    2) Longer trigger pull, yes. Heavier? maybe, maybe not. Smoothness goes along way toward feeling light, and there is a little crunch factor in my PPS (M1). Not enough to matter unless you pay close attention with a slow pull. The Kahr is much smoother and breaks cleanly.
    3) The P9 has 7+1, is this not what the 9MM PPS has? Both are single stacks. Any double stack will have more.
    4) I think Kahr has some models with a safety, I have no experience with those, I feel a proper fitted holster is enough.

    One thing I can say about the Kahrs is some people love them and others dislike them and put them in the "cheap" gun category. I do not. I think they have some very desirable features. The best of them are in 9mm. One thing you do not get with Kahr is the kind of support you would get from Ruger. I never have had to call upon Walther support except for a backstrap that needed replacing.

    For the kind of detailed info you are really looking for you must try them yourself. Having said that, I recently bought and now carry a Glock 48 with Ameriglo night sights from the factory. But I would not hesitate to carry either of my Kahr PMs if I want to go really tiny. They all shoot very nice for me.
     
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  14. Kookla

    Kookla Member

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    Out of the three you mention, I have only experience with the Walther PPS M2. Liked it so much, I bought another as a backup. I enjoy shooting it and it carries well in either IWB holster I've gotten for it- one is a PJ holster and the other is from Green Force Tactical.

    As others have said, it is very slim.
     
  15. Sour Kraut

    Sour Kraut Member

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    I have 3 9mm Walthers, all of which I am very happy with. I started with a PPQ M2, then added the smaller PPS M2, and finally a PPQ SC. The PPS became my main carry gun because of its size, but I replaced it with the SC. While the SC is bigger, it’s a 10+1 double stack and I shoot it better than the PPS. The additional size has not been detrimental to concealment for me. YMMV.
     
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  16. sparkyv

    sparkyv Member

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    I agree with TX10mm. I will add that my LCP felt snappier to me than my P365. FWIW, my Dad likes his Ruger Security 9.
     
  17. BlueHeelerFl

    BlueHeelerFl Member

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    One thing to consider with the Ruger is that it is blued carbon steel, so rust resistance could be an issue.

    I live in FL now so sweet and humidity are a major factor for me.
     
  18. 94045

    94045 Member

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    I don't find the P365 as good as the Ruger LC9S/EC9S Trigger. You have some creep (Likely not technically correct but what I call the notchy sliding feeling before the wall) but you get past it before the wall so it doesn't effect the feel at the break. I find the P365 to be a very light recoiler for it's size. By comparison an LC9S/EC9S feels like a .40 Cal when both are firing the same ammo. I don't think you are going to find a Striker fired pistol that feels like a 1911 with a quality 5 lb Duty Trigger. I don't think they exist. Disclaimer: I have not fired a PPS, PPQ or Steyr.

    I'm not a very good shot but for me the first time out. Rapid Aimed Fire I put 9 of 11 or 10 out of 13 in a 2" Cluster inside a 2.75" Bull at 7 yard. The misses where all called fliers either touched off before the pistol tracked back to the aim point or pulled low left. As I said I'm not a great shot. By comparison thats about the same I shoot a 1911 at 15 Yd.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  19. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    My P99 in single action is 4 pounds. I haven't tested my PPS M1 but the internet consensus is in the ballpark of 5.9 to the advertised 6.1 pounds.
     
  20. thomas15

    thomas15 Member

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    Question: Ruger Security 9, Walther PPS, Sig p365 which to get?

    Answer: All three and toss in a Glock 43

    Justification: Do you only have one pair of pants?
     
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  21. priler

    priler Member

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    you have several Bersa .380s?

    you consider them to be excellent guns?

    they are some of the most accurate you've ever shot?

    they are DA and you like and are used to that?,..really smooth and crisp break?

    you want something about 1" thick, no thicker (and with no controls poking out further I presume)?

    hmm, I think you just described the Bersa thunder .380 CC.

    get yourself the factory 8 round mags with pinky rest for slightly better grip but no loss in slimness or draw-ability, although the flat base factory 8 round ones are ok and do give a full grip.

    I suppose you may complain about the sights but they suit the purpose and work fine.

    OAL- 6"
    height- 4.6"
    width- 1"
    barrel- 3.2"
    weight- 16.4 oz. (I suspect more like 18 oz. or 17.5, big woop)
    frame- aluminum.

    leave the factory grips, they work surprisingly well and are comfortable with their particular specialized design and keep it all SLIM.

    in 9mm, i'd wait for them to fix your BP9CC.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  22. Jeb Stuart

    Jeb Stuart member

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    My Vote. Kahr. Top quality mild shooter, great trigger. Sounds like you do not like DAO. . If so, you need to find a light Striker fired trigger. Plenty of them out there. I love the DAO, but I do want to try out the New Mossberg MC1.
     
  23. jonnyc

    jonnyc Member

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    Curious why you haven't listed (or considered) the Glock 43 or 43X?
    I went through the same process and chose the 43. After my daughter "stole" it, I opted for the 43 X.
     
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  24. Ralph III

    Ralph III Member

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    I truly appreciate all the input and I have adjusted my criteria. In part because of your input but also because there is one gun that just keeps coming back up. Its always been at the top of my interest but I ruled it out because it was a little wider than desired. However, every time I handle that gun I am just amazed at how it feels in my hand.

    I stopped by several gun stores and a pawn shop over the last days and I was able to make some decisions. Anyhow, here is where I am for those of you who may be interested.

    1) I am no longer considering the Sig p365. I've decided I really prefer a slightly larger 9mm. It's a great gun but it just doesn't feel good in my hands at all. I also have a hard time picking up the sights. The Sig p365xl could be of interest though.

    2) The Ruger Security 9 Compact is now off my list or at least very low. I was finally able to get my hands on one and it felt very blocky and large. In fact, I initially thought the clerk possibly handed me the full size Security 9.

    3) The Walther PPS is also lower on my list now. The gun felt good and the size was great but I didn't like the trigger. It was very gritty like my Bersa Bp9cc and also had that "wall" right before the break which I really do not prefer. I am more accustomed to a smooth trigger pull that just breaks.

    4) The Kahr's are now at the top of my list! A pawn shop had a Kahr K9 and Kahr CW9 that I was able to look at. Although the trigger pulls on those models are longer than I desire they were amazingly smooth!!! They felt just like my Bersa Thunder 380's or a really smooth revolver. If they have one with a shorter and lighter trigger pull, or a trigger enhancement available, then I may have found my gun. For those of you who have a Kahr do you find rapid firing to be difficult and challenging with the long trigger pull? How is your accuracy with precision shots and rapid fire?

    Jeb Stuart. I never said I didn't like DAO triggers. I just do not want a long and heavy DA trigger. Kahr has done an amazing job with their triggers.


    5) The Walther CCP m2 is officially #1 on my list now. That gun peaked my interest from the beginning because 1) it has a fixed barrel like my Thunder 380's which are extremely accurate, 2) it has a lower recoil which could be crucial in a ccw and 3) I've never felt a pistol that feels better in my hands.

    Lastly. Priler we have several Thunder 380's. One for my wife and one for my daughter. I also owned a Thunder 380cc which has been my primary carry gun for the last 2 years. I just sold it because the standard Thunder 380's conceal just as well and have better sights. In addition, I am looking to add a 9mm to my rotation so the Thunder 380cc just didn't fit in anymore. We will always keep the standard models though.

    God Bless,
    Ralph
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
  25. priler

    priler Member

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    yeah the CCP did feel very good in my hand as well.(when they first came out). the slides are easy to rack too.

    be careful what you find in pawn shops, Walther has upgraded the CCP. I don't know all the details but I think the take down is easier on the new ones, no tool needed or something like that, perhaps other improvements as well.
     
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