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Russia has a new rifle.

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Mk-211, Jul 1, 2020.

  1. MikeInOr

    MikeInOr Member

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    I read a different article on this rifle that was claiming 7km body shots... with open sights! :)
     
  2. Jessesky

    Jessesky Member

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    I don’t think the range is BS. I think it’s ‘viable’, what I think is BS, is that any of this matters.

    Let’s take the shorter range of 5km (5400yards). Now let’s use 400 gr leigh bullets loaded to 3100fps. I’ll be generous and use the g1 bc which is .983.

    Now 5km is 5400yards, but my ballistics calculator only goes to 5000yards. With conventional propellants today, no matter what, the bullet will take a minimum of around 12 seconds to reach the target, drop 20,600in, and drift 1000in with a 10mph crosswind.

    Even if the shooter could hold .5 MOA at that distance with allllll those variables the bullet will come across with extreme distance (which we know will not happen) the spread is 25 inches.

    It’s ballistics are so unpredictable at that distance, apart from ELR target shooting, it’s too unpredictable to be practical. So it doesn’t matter. That’s why in my opinion 338 lapua is about as big as a “sniper rifle” needs to be, unless you’re shooting armor at close distances
     
  3. H&R Glock

    H&R Glock Member

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    Sounds like an attempt to sell prototype rifles in the U.S. at exorbitant prices. It would be a successful money (Ruble) maker.
    No way this is gonna' happen........
    Besides when the target sees the Rusky placing range flags every 500 meters he would move to a different foxhole.
     
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  4. whm1974

    whm1974 member

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    The Russian Military already have fairly decent sniper rifles as well as 14.5mm Anti-Material Rifles for everything else... I'm not sure what the .408 CheyTac(10.3x77 mm) cartridge even brings to the table.
     
  5. Dave DeLaurant

    Dave DeLaurant Member

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    Well stated! Did your ballistics program give the range where the velocity drops below 1100 fps?
     
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  6. Crosshair

    Crosshair Member

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    Eh, everybody lies about their "new super going to change the world" technology.
     
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  7. MikeInOr

    MikeInOr Member

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    I think you are missing a critical difference here... when we lie it is advertising, when the Russians lie it is propraganda!
     
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  8. Jessesky

    Jessesky Member

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    Using these parameters
    D7473903-CD7F-4E14-88A2-43843BC32211.jpeg
    It goes transonic at 2650fps. After dropping 2600in and drifting 295in.
     
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  9. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Explain how a bullet goes transonic at more than Mach 2.
     
  10. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    The Russians sped up sound too so that they can communicate via transistor radio equipped with a Rockwell turbo encabulator. Just look up that turbo encabulator, it’s pretty impressive.
     
  11. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm member

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    Run the numbers at 4950 fps which is what they are claiming the new cartridge will deliver.
     
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  12. Crosshair

    Crosshair Member

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    "Advertising Propagandist" sounds like a job title for someone in sales. :p

    Reminds me of the box we used to have at work with a printed label that said "Competition Sales Brochures" half heartedly scribbled out with sharpie. Below it was written "Enemy Propaganda" in sharpie. :rofl:
     
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  13. Terry Vincent

    Terry Vincent Member

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    Wait a minute, wait a minute...... Edgar Rice Burroughs’ novel, The Chessmen of Mars, the four-armed Martians had a rifle accurate to two hundred miles and flying carpets.

    Today, our tanks launch sabot depleted uranium projectiles with no rifling, just fins to stabilize the round at 5,000 FPS.
    Just sayin.........

    sorry, goose for the redundancy, I didn’t read all the posts
     
  14. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Going back to distance-to-horizon tables, 5000yds is 2.84 miles, to see that far you need an elevation of 5'-10" (±70").

    Using the calculated numbers above, using a triangle of 2500 yard with a peak height of 572 yards, the firearm elevation angle is about 13º which is going to require considerable scope offset (and I'm not about to go look up what sort of scope resolution is wanted to resolve a 1x1m target at 5000yds).

    So our "wonder weapon" is going to need a bipod rather resembling that of a mortar, if at less extreme elevation; and a scope mounting that was not over the bore but alongside of it.
     
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  15. U.S.SFC_RET

    U.S.SFC_RET Member

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    Russia yet again is spinning straight up BS.
     
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  16. Ivy Mike

    Ivy Mike Member

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    Came in to post exactly this. Such long ranges are basically worthless without either being up a tree or shooting from an elevated position into a valley.

    Sure, its possible but that's why we have portable mortars. I do think you could make an argument for a caseless cartridge with a projectile that is very long and stable at those velocities, like a modern 7.92 CETME. That could be doable, and would negate the negative aspect of caseless ammo, which is rapid fire. A single shot action with a very long projectile and a caseless propellant that partially encloses said projectile would be awesome. Especially if you use an electric firing system to have the lightest most effortless, least jarring trigger pull ever. It could literally be two brass contacts that complete a circuit.

    crap, I should probably start filing a patent and stop talking on the interwebnets. Although the original questions still stands; why bother?
     
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  17. Hooda Thunkit

    Hooda Thunkit Member

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    Don't bother with the patent application. Everything you talked about has already been done.
     
  18. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    LoL.
    Considering you really can't "shoulder" this thing, and that it's utility in "direct fire" mode is going to be limited, it's really just a puny mortar. After all, to shorten the range, you really need to increase the barrel angle. Just like you would with a mortar.
    Now, if we imagine an anti-materiel rifle, we can start with some things. At an elevation of one foot, the horizon is 1.2 miles away (±2100 yds). What would seem wanted is to adapt discarding sabot down to portable caliber. Armor penetrators want to be 1:12 to 1:17 diameter to length. So, let's posit a 10x75 with a sabot to carry a 5x65 tungsten penetrating rod. Fin stabilizing the rod means no rifling to burn out. That might get you a projectile up to around 5000fps. Which would be the sort of thing you could aim from over the cop of the center of the bore.

    But, it would not be as "novel" as a 7km "rifle." Oh, wait, the 75mm Mk 32 Oto-Melara naval rifle has an 10km range with a 3" projectile with a 50% probability of putting the round into a 150x50 foot ellipse at that range. Oops.
     
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  19. tark

    tark Member

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    Remember Putins bragging about his "hyper sonic" ICBMs ?

    Hate to break it to you Vlad, but all ICBMs are hyper sonic.

    This contraption is the personification of the word "Bull you know what"
     
  20. Goosey

    Goosey Member

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    I went searching around, and the quote I found was more believable:

    “Now we are working on a rifle and cartridge with a maximum range of six to seven kilometers and confident shooting of three kilometers. The preliminary name of the project is DXL-5, our products such as DXL-4 "Sevastopol" and DXL-3 "Retribution" belong to this family. There were no rifles with such range in the world market of sniper weapons yet,” RIA Novosti quoted Lobaev as saying.
     
  21. Ivy Mike

    Ivy Mike Member

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    If I find Thunkit, Hooda on a patent in the coming year, I'm going to be very upset.
     
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  22. Jessesky

    Jessesky Member

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    Yards*
     
  23. Jessesky

    Jessesky Member

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    I don’t think I will be able to, because the ballistics coefficient will be higher at the higher velocity (which I don’t know).

    The numbers are CONSIDERABLY less, even if I run it using the same BC. It drops 8,000in drifts 600in, goes transonic at 4150, and takes at least 8 seconds to arrive. So MUCH better, but for practical uses, I do still think 8seconds, and 600 in of wind drift make it way impractical.

    Look at people like mark and Sam shooting something like the 375 Gibbs. At 4000meters. These are arguably the best extreme long range target shooters I’ve seen, and they have to walk it in with many, many shots under ideal conditions. And this is a still 24”x24” square. “from memory we had 14 shots in total before hit. Took us a few to get on to the wind conditions.”
     
  24. Weflyfast

    Weflyfast Member

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    People- without getting my self into too much trouble ITS ALL ABOUT THE EYE IN THE SKY NOW! Drone capibility is FAR beyond what ya'll can even imagine-

    ....and the new fighters are UNBELIEVABLE....

    BUT- you always need the guys on the ground and the brave souls that take the ground-
     
  25. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    A drone is only helpful where the target is stationary, or when the target's range of motion is limited enough to allows shots to be corrected onto the target.

    Which also means that the drone has to have some sort of clear line of sight, too. Drones are not autonomous, either, they need clear frequencies to pass control information back and forth.

    So, when your pocket radar unit detects a drone (or it's RF signature) you simply pop smoke (hot or cold smoke for the thermal imagers) and use your ECM to jam the control freqs. Drone is now useless, and the target is alerted--so double tactical fail.

    For those "drone strikes" we hear so much about, 1, that's alphabet agency stuff, Military drones do not, by fiat, have weapons racks. And, 2, those armed drones have Hellfire missiles and a targeting laser. The AGM-114 has a minimum range of 500m and a maximum of 11KM. The engagement range is largely set by the optimum lasing distance. The anti-tank version carries a ±10kg shaped charge; there are dual-acting warheads with both a shaped charge and a ring charges; certain agencies are said to have a simple KV (e.g. solid shot) shell for use against single, individual, targets. Such agencies are not exactly forthcoming on the efficiencies of such things, and popular press reporting will be of the quality of the squeezings of the bar towel at the end of the night.
     
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