Russian Mak went full auto, shot my hand.

[BryanP]

First off, I'm glad to hear you're going to be okay. Hand injuries can be ugly and it sounds like this one is going to be painful and aesthetically displeasing, but otherwise okay.

Second, good call on making your wife happy by dumping the milsurps. I like them too but if keeping domestic tranquility means you can only buy nice new guns that's a sacrifice you just have to make.

Third, I hope you can get the Mak back just so you can figure out what happened.

Fourth, umm... how much you want for that FR-8? Or that unissued No4MkII?

 

[30 cal slob]

Sorry to hear of your injury.

Well, let me say that having gone through something like this, from my own experience time heals all wounds.

It will take time, but I think that you'll feel the itch to get out and shoot again someday.

Why don't you take a deep breath and hold off on selling your firearms? Your feelings are understandable but they are coloring your outlook right now. It doesn't hurt to wait, unless you need the money.

 

[Kevinch]

Glad to hear you're OK - it just goes to show that we need to practice safe gun handling techniques all the time - you just never know.

One thing you might want to consider, if you're of the mind to, is to keep the milsurps as collection pieces but don't shoot them.

Hope you heal up fast!

 

[hcker2000]

Hope every thing heals up good.

I noticed a weird thing on my pa-63 like this. If I take it appart with the safty on and put the slide back on it always releases the hammer. The only thing stoping it from hiting the firing pin is the little peices of metal on the back of the safty. I guess the rule with that is never never never take it apart with a mag in it.

Any way enough of my stories. Your story on the other hand is a good lesson for people like me who are just geting into shooting and don't have other shooting people around to learn from.

Also Equilibrium is a good movie and you might be able to pick up some moves

 

[possenti]

Wow. You are very lucky to retain use of your hand - after it heals, of course. Your typing looks good, although I'm sure it throbs and stings a little right now...

Posted earlier:

You might feel better shooting revolvers for awhile. I prefer them for several reasons, tho I think I have a new one to add.

Some years ago, I read a story in a gun rag about a guy who brought a revolver to a gunsmith and said it was "going full-auto" on him. The 'smith thought he as crazy. Upon test-firing, it truly shot all six rounds quickly with one pull of the trigger. Turns out, the back part of the frame where the hammer strikes the primer was worn somehow, and the primers were actually blowing out the back of the case, re-cocking the hammer each time. The hammer immediately fell on the next fresh round, and the cycle started again until the cylinder was spent. I don't recall what type of revolver it was, but it goes to show you that anything can happen with guns.

 

[hcker2000]

I also heard about a revolver doing this. I think it was my grandpa who mentioned it.

 

[rust collector]

I was sorry to hear of your injury, and I hope the healing goes well. There is bound to be some post traumatic stress involved, so I hope you have good and caring friends to help you through that as well.

Do recover the Mak for a professionally done failure analysis, and if you haven't already, get on Makarov.com and other Mak resources to make them aware of the problem. While there you will no doubt be checking for similar instances, but I am sure you understand the need to help prevent this happening to other shooters.

By and large, I would expect milsurps to be among the safest of firearms because they have been thoroughly vetted over a long period of use. Some may have reassembly problems however that should be noted, as with the old Ross rifles. I do hope you can get to the bottom of this and help prevent future problems of this type for others.

 

[dev_null]

Good to hear it wasn't worse. Still confused how your hand got in front of the muzzle, though.

 

[ACORN]

Sorry to hear about your mis-fortune.
The Maks have a good reputation for reliability so it's a little puzzling as to what went wrong. Have it looked over. Fix whats needed. Maks are great little guns.
I'd press hard to get it back from your local PD. I don't see why there would be a reason for them to confiscate, it other than to make sure it wasn't "intentionally altered".
I hope that in time You're back blasting away. You're a little gun shy (sorry about the pun), and that is only natural. In time your body will heal, and nerves will settle.
If you sell off your guns, You will regret it.

 

[gm]

dont get rid of your milsurps ..learn from it and move on.If anything, curiousity as to why it did what it did would make me want to correct it and learn from it so that it doesnt happen in the future. I would ask the police for the gun back and have a competent smith give it a look over and show you exactly what happened.





Ive had an sks do the FA thing before but I figured out later that the firing pin was stuck because there was a tiny piece of lead wedged tightly in the channel..at the time, it scared the bejeebers out of me but after solving the problem, its one of my favorite ones to shoot now.

 

[EVIL5LITER]

I'm glad you're ok and think of this as a reinforcement of the four rules in your mind. It only takes one ND to really shake a person up, and you had to go through five at once.

Keep the faith, and for once, you can blame it on the gun and not the shooter.

 

[Coltdriver]

What state do you live in where the police can steal your propertywith no due process or charging of a crime? Just curious.

After hearing of your experience its good that your hand will be alright.

 

[ChillyW]

coltdriver said:

What state do you live in where the police can steal your propertywith no due process or charging of a crime? Just curious.

There's a thing called probable cause. They have a weapon that went full auto on the user, with witnesses. It certainly makes sense to seize the evidence and check things out. For all they know, bambam is a gang-banger with an illegally modified weapon. So it makes perfect sense to hold onto the weapon while they investigate. If they didn't grab the gun, and he went off and shot someone with it, they'd most certainly looking at a big lawsuit against the deptartment, and shortly thereafter be looking for new jobs. They're just doing a CYA, and who can blame them?

Of course, once they realise it was just an accident, they should be giving it back to bambam promptly. Whether they actually do or not... remains to be seen. I'm hoping we'll hear back on that front, as well as progress as the hand heals.

 

[Bwana John]

I also heard about a revolver doing this.

???

Could you have "bumpfired" it? I have a friend that can do unbelievable things with semi-autos rifles and pistols, he holds them loose, AND somehow pushes the gun forward aganst his trigger finger, he can dump a mag at full auto speed, I dont think it is very safe, but i have seen him do it with both rifles and pistols. (I have done it from the hip with a AK, AR, and FAL, but I think it is stupid to do with a pistol) (actually I think it is stuipd with a rifle also, but dumping a 30 round mag out of a AK in 3 seconds IS pretty cool)

 

[jefnvk]

Possible you had primers that were too light for use in a military gun, in the ammo? I have heard of milsurps that slam fire because of soft primers. Or, as stated, prmiers not fully inserted?

 

[El Rojo]

I would trash the MAK after it was torn down to see what the real problem was!

I wouldn't trash it, I would hang it up on the wall in my garage. Just a little reminder to be more careful next time. I'm not trying to be hard on you as I know too well that accidents happend. However, after accidents its good to have that knowledge in your head and remember it. If that won't keep you safer than you have ever been, nothing will.

Glad you are doing ok. You do what you want. Sell all your guns, don't sell any. It is up to you. When it comes down to it, they are just wood, synthetics, and metal. You can't take them with you when you die. Being alive is a good thing.

 

[KONY]

Bam,

Thank you for posting this ... seems like a very vivid portrayal of your experiences and thinking processes ... hope you are able to put this behind you and be able to enjoy taking your child shooting when he/she is ready.

 

[One of Many]

Makarov is a quality pistol

I am glad you are not seriously disabled by this incident, and that you shared your experience with the shooting community. I also would like to know how your hand (which should have been below the grip) came to be in front of the muzzle when the gun discharged. I suspect that the first round was the one that nicked you.

I bought 5 makarov pistols. One of them would double or triple about once every 50 rounds. I discovered that someone had tampered with the sear angle to lighten the trigger pull. After I replaced the sear, the pistol functioned correctly, and very reliably.

The problem with the slide going forward when the magazine is inserted is probably an adjustment issue with the mainspring. It is possible to loosen the screw that holds the grip in place, and slide the mainspring up or down a bit, and this does affect the operation of the slide lock.

This sounds like a combination of 2 malfunctions, one serious, and the other minor. The sear (and possibly the hammer) definitely needs to be replaced.

With a minor polish of the bottom edge of the feed ramp, the Makarov will feed ANY ammo that is within spec for overall length (OAL). This pistol has a well deserved reputation as a highly reliable firearm, but like all mechanical things, wear does occur, and uneducated tampering can negatively affect the normal operation.

I would trust my life to any one of the 5 Makarov pistols I bought, before I would my 1911 (it has had constant problems from the day I bought it new). Get yor Makarov back from the PD, fix the sear, and practice with it. It is a very accurate pistol, and is readily concealable, though a bit heavy. It is an excellent CCW gun, and would be useful as a car gun for when you travel through dangerous territory.

 

[BamBam-31]

Maks are great little pistols, don't get me wrong. It's not like I'm gonna sue Nikolai Makarov's family or anything. Please don't take this as a flame against Maks. If anything, it's--as an earlier poster described it--a cautionary tale. Maybe parts were worn, maybe parts were kitchen tabled, dunno for sure. All I know is, I did right by cleaning it and following the safety rules, and I still got hit. Hence the ol' "poop happens" adage.

As for how my hand got in front of the muzzle, again, I dunno. I locked the slide back, dropped the mag, loaded up five rounds of Barnaul, pointed the pistol downrange (w/ finger off trigger, of course), rotated it about 45 degrees clockwise, inserted loaded mag w/ left hand, slapped it in w/ left hand, then POP-POP-POP-POP-POP!!! Maybe I was still pressing downward with my strong hand when the gun went full auto, and I instinctively kept pressing it downward when it went off. There was no time to get my left hand out of the way. Dunno which round hit my hand.

Glad you are doing ok. You do what you want. Sell all your guns, don't sell any. It is up to you. When it comes down to it, they are just wood, synthetics, and metal. You can't take them with you when you die. Being alive is a good thing.

My thoughts exactly, Red.

 

[dev_null]

> Dunno which round hit my hand.

The one that hurt.

Glad it doesn't seem to have damaged your sense of humor!

 

[makanut]

Maks are great weapons, but it is critical to keep the firing pin in a state where it is able to move and not stuck in the channel. That is one disadvantage of the "free floating" firing pin. It can rust in place or get stuck from lack of lubrication and become a full auto weapon. I'm just glad you're ok.

 

[mainmech48]

Glad to hear that you'll regain full use of your hand. You are very fortunate in that, as I'm sure you know.

I wouldn't be surprised if some ham-fingered kitchen table 'smithing had a hand in this (no pun intended). Even though you put fifty rds through it on another occasion without incident, my guess is that the stress of doing so may have 'finished off' a weakened sear engagement. I've seen it happen on a factory assembled (poorly) Llama .22 purchased NIB.

Some outfits put a slight case hardening on their lockwork parts prior to final installation and assembly. It's only a couple of thousandths deep. It doesn't take much messing about with an engagement surface to remove it, leaving a the relatively soft base material exposed to accelerated wear and battering. This appeared to be the case with the Llama, which doubled twice on the second mag through it and blew a hole in the ground a couple of inches from the toe of my left boot when I dropped the slide on a third.

I can understand your feeling uneasy about 'getting back on the horse'. It took me almost eight years before I could get back on a motorcycle after I dropped my BSA 'Rocket Three'. My sacral spine was broken, my pelvis was in several pieces, and I spent seventeen weeks in traction followed by almost two years walking with a cane.

I can also well understand your feeling as if you need to make some substantial gesture in order to comfort your family members. Hopefully, something less than full abstinence will suffice. My sister hasn't spoken to me since I bought my much-cherished BMW R-100GS back in '96.

My best wishes for a speedy and complete return to full function.

 

[GRB]

Both the slide lock AND the firing pin had to have malfunctioned simultaneously for the full auto accident to have happened, eh?

Did the slide lock really malfunction? Some are basically meant to close if you slam a magazine into the pistol hard enough - my Glocks do it all the time. Not necessarily a malfunction. of course it could have been a malfunction. As for the firing pin being in a bad position I guess that could have caused it, but what caused the firing pin to be stuck forward. Fouling and debris (such as brass shavings) are two of the likely suspect materials but you say the gun was very clean. Over oiling has been known to cause debris to get stuck in the firing pin channel/housing.

I don't know if high primers could have been the cause, but maybe. In that case there may have been nothing wrong with the pistol. The slide could have gone forward because of slamming a mag hard into the mag well, or because it was not latched fully and properly because of human error (just giving possibilities) then if each round had a very high primer, I suppose the face of the slide could have slammed into the high primer setting it off, this would have fired and cycled the pistol, loading the next round also with high primer, which also goes off in the same way, then likewise until all are fired. My guess is though that since you fired the same lot of ammo the week before with no problems, this is unlikely. Broken firing pin, and part protruding - Maybe.

There was one other possible malfunction by the way but, not the gun. That possible one was due to shooter error. How your hand wound up in front of the muzzle is a bit of a mystery. Maybe shoter error maybe due to the gun going beserk and catching you off guard. You have to figure that one out.

All in all, it was one heck of an experience. You can be happy the gun was basically pointed down range when it went off. I can understand how you geel unhappy tough, I would not be happy about a hole in my hand either; I guess just less unhappy that it did not do more harm to me or others. By the way, nightmares can be expected for up to many months after such an incident if it really traumatized you mentally. If they persist, it is normal but also a sign that maybe you should seek some therapy to help put it to an end. Selling some guns may help ease tensions at home but, in my opinion, will do little to ease the pain of this event.

Hopefully you will make a full recovery in the not too distant future. The wife and mother will get over it and realize you were not hurt more because you pretty much, if not altogether, did it safely. You will keep your guns and have lots of safe fun with them in the future. Safe shooting.

Best wishes for a full and speedy recovery,

Glenn B

 

[P95Carry]

Amazing experience!! More than relieved for you re the injury - soft tissues will mend so much easier than smashed bone - that was a very close call.

Can't even begin to pin down the ''why'' of the whole thing but - you posting this does give us a useful cautionary tale. Maybe it is a reminder that we should always expect the unexpected, not assume etc - in other words ... during loading and first shot too - sorta be prepared. With a previously fired and clean gun tho, it sure is wierd.

I'd like to think the gun will be returned - it is rightfully yours. Do give further feedback as things develop any further.

Best wishes

 

[another okie]

Ouch. Glad you're OK.

I saw a guy shoot himself accidentally at a pistol match a year or two ago. He put his hand over the ejection port to catch the chambered round after removing the magazine. When the round ejected the primer somehow hit the sharp edge of the ejection port and ignited, punching a nice hole in the web of his hand. That's why you should just let it fall, and why range officers shouldn't try to catch the darn thing.

On a related topic, a fellow I know was shooting his new Glock 26 at the range one day and was playing with it (while pointed downrange) with the slide locked back, magazine inserted, and finger on the trigger. I told him to get that magazine out, because the Glock can indeed close and if your finger is on the trigger, BANG! He had no experience with Glocks, but fortunately is a quick learner.