S&W 625 and Having Crimp Problem

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by MissouriCrowinMass, May 3, 2015.

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  1. MissouriCrowinMass

    MissouriCrowinMass Member

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    I reload .45ACP for a S&W 625. I use the flexible, plastic Moon Clips. I've noticed that with FMJ bullets, the recoil yanks them out of the casing's crimp?
    At a Pin Shoot two weeks ago, I'd sometimes shoot like 4 shots and eject the Moon Clip - the two unfired cartridges would have the FMJ bullets about 1/8" out of the crimp? Very scary looking.

    I went back and re-crimped 200 FMJ bullets. These are re-crimped to .4700" and they are still pulling out of the crimp about 1/16". These are all the last two bullets left in a Moon Clip after firing four shots. These are much less scary than the originals.

    I don't seem to have this issue with lead or clad bullets in the S&W 625?

    Has anybody experienced this?

    Thanks,

    MissouriCrowinMass
     

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  2. highlander 5

    highlander 5 Member

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    I reload for a 625 using lead,jacketed and plated and use the Rimz moon clips and haven't run into the problem you're having. The only things I could guess at is your bullets are undersized or your expander is oversize. Come to think of it what make of dies are using?
     
  3. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Last edited: May 3, 2015
  4. ATAShooter

    ATAShooter Member

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    Get a Cannelure tool
     
  5. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Never had any problem in my 625-6 Mountain Gun.

    Leading likely causes?

    1. Expander is too big.
    It should be no larger then bullet diameter, just to keep the belling portion of the expander centered in the case.
    Better yet, it should be about .450" to just guide the expander / belling thingy and keep it centered in the resized case.

    2. Brass is too thin.
    Watch out for Remington brass.

    3. Too much taper crimp loosens the bullet.

    .45 ACP should be crimped no less then probably .471".
    Otherwise, the case mouth is squeezing the soft lead bullet core under-size.

    And making it looser, not tighter!

    rc
     
  6. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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  7. Barry the Bear

    Barry the Bear Member

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    Wish I had a 625 with a ported three inch barrel in .45 colt.
     
  8. Drail

    Drail Member

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    Measure your expander. Measure your bullet. There is where your problem almost certainly lies. Many expander dies will overexpand the case.
     
  9. MissouriCrowinMass

    MissouriCrowinMass Member

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    Thanks guys. I use RCBS Dies for .45ACP.

    I'm always impressed with the great body of collective wisdom & experience on this Forum. Even 25 years ago - where would the average guy learn this stuff? Let alone in 1 day.

    a.) I'm going to check my expanding procedure. I usually expand so the bullet can sit on top of the case and not fall off when I set it. Maybe that's too much? Although I've shot 1000's of reloaded rounds in 1911's and not seen this occur? My .45 reloads have always been good up till now.

    b.) I never knew that they made dies a wee bit undersized? I've had BAD dies....I had one set of .30 carbine dies that just didn't resize the case tight enough to maintain bullet setback by hand. I got another set and - NO PROBLEM.

    c.) But what I really liked was that cannliture tool.....I think I'm going get one of them. Didn't know about them?

    Happy shooting!
     
  10. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Neck tension holds the bullet, not the "crimp" in .45 ACP.

    Perhaps you are over expanding, perhaps your sizer is too big (Or too big for thin walled brass), or your expander is too big, or a combination thereof.
     
  11. highlander 5

    highlander 5 Member

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    Perhaps you can locate some 45 auto rim brass. Remington and Starline are the only source of 45 AR brass that I know of. You can use your 45 auto dies just a different shell holder.
     
  12. Caswell Ranch

    Caswell Ranch Member

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    Crimp to .468, have shot thousands of 230gRN and 200g rounds at this crimp with no problems
     
  13. moxie

    moxie Member

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    From looking at the pic you posted, I think you are overcrimping. The bullets exhibit a definite indentation from the overcrimp. Just crimp enough to remove the "bell" or "flare" from the expander die and let case neck tension hold the bullet in place. Overcrimping will destroy the tension. Actual OD really doesn't matter so much with revolvers. They just need to fit in the chamber.

    I've loaded many thousands of FMJs for my 625-3 using very hot loads and RIMZ plastic moonclips with no bullet jump.

    A cannelure on the bullets will allow you to roll crimp into the cannelure, adding a measure of bullet security in addition to case neck tension. But, I wouldn't go that route until you try perfecting your case neck tension without actual crimping first. If, after that you still have bullet jump then go ahead. But, recoil with a big heavy 625 is really not all that stout, even with very hot loads. The .45 ACP just ain't a magnum.

    Auto rim brass is nice but you'll have the exact same problems until you correct your adjustments. Loading for auto rim is identical to ACP except for the shell holder, as mentioned above.
     
  14. Drail

    Drail Member

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    Be aware that over expanding and over flaring are two different things. Expanding is done by the shank of the expander button - flaring is done by the step at the top of the shank. In other words expansion will be the same no matter how far into the case you run the expander. But go too far and you will over flare the mouth. Measure your expander button's dia. and your bullets. Your expander button should be 2 or 3 thous. under your bullets dia. If it is not chuck it into a drill and turn it down until it is. When you seat a bullet (with no crimp yet applied) press it against the edge of your bench - hard. You should not be able to move it into the case any at all. If it passes that test then your bullets should not pull or setback. You should also be able to faintly see a line and a bulge in the brass where the bottom of the bullet is when it is seated into the case. Look down the side of the round with a good light. Ás far as "the .45 ACP just aint a magnum.." - absolutely right but it's close enough for most Govt work.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2015
  15. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    I agree, to much crimp in the photo.
     
  16. moxie

    moxie Member

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    Slightly off topic, but this post prompts me to ask:

    Out of every 100 reloading problems discussed on this board, how many are attributable to crimping issues?

    I'm not sure, but I think the answer is "a bunch."
     
  17. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Note that the op "re-crimped" after the first bullets moved.
     
  18. MissouriCrowinMass

    MissouriCrowinMass Member

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    Guys,

    Yes. Those bullets were re-crimped. My normal crimp isn't that much on .45 acp.

    I test in a SAMMI Gage and in my 1911 chamber to make sure my reloads are not too big.

    I now understand what you are saying about the Expander and the Flaring Die. I didn't get that at first? I'll check the Expander' s Diameter.


    Thanks, again.
     
  19. BCRider

    BCRider Member

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    So many things all interact don't they?

    If it turns out that you're cases are giving a good neck tension then try a few that you crimp only just enough to straighten the side walls. Load 'em up and shoot them from your revolver and drop the clip worth after two shots to see how the others are doing.

    By over crimping you're swaging in a good portion of the neck tension area and losing retention force when the casing springs back out. So you're losing tension instead of adding to it. Which is where only minimally crimping comes into the picture.

    If you have a good firm neck tension you should be able to see a very slight bulge in the casing at the base line of the bullet. You'll have to hold the cartridge just right to the light and wear the "special glasses" but it should be there. If it's a bigger bulge than this then your bullets might be over size or the die is sizing the casings too small. A "plunk test" in your chamber will quickly tell you which it is.

    Hopefully that added something additional to the great replies you got already.
     
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