S&W 645 Questions

[Noveldoc]

They all do that stickly slide thing from time to time. Just have to wiggle and cuss. It'll eventually go.

I noted my 4506-1 has an extremely stiff recoil spring, much more so than old my old 645. It is nearly twice the length of the spring guide. Think this may be some sort of after market stiffie?

I usually get a Wolff spring for the recoil spring on used autos but this one inspects fine, just is really stiff. Would it harm anything using a stiffer spring except perhaps poor feeding of light handloads?

Tom

 

[DougDubya]

Hey DougDubya...we must have travelled in some of the same circles...I attended a firearms instructor school in 1987 and the "Zoo Guy" had the screw come loose on his safety/decocker quite a few times...they had MUCH bigger stuff to take care of the animals should they get loose...
Bill

Well, I was a mere teen when my uncle's friends stopped by for a funeral in full uniform and gear.

And I was in my late teens when I worked the kitchens at Brookfield Zoo for the "other animals" (visitors). Before they standardized on the 4506, two of the officers carried 1911's.

And sure, while they might have had bigger stuff in the car (actually a Bronco or a Suburban), they weren't always in their SUV's.

Between the Zoo cops (and one particular cutie who was so small, she needed a 3906), my uncle's TAC Cop friend, Miami Vice, and Massad Ayoob's articles, I've pretty much fallen in love with the big Smith .45.

(And Vic Mackey carrying one in The Shield helped respark THAT romance.)

As for the screw thing, I'm pretty sure the Phillips-head screws on the early 645's didn't last for too many runs. Most 645's and all of the 4506's had that bar through the circle with a pin setup on the southpaw side.

Oh! 'nudder reason for the love of the 4506 family - ambidextrous decocker/safety. At the time, no one provided factory stock ambi .45 autos. Smith and Wesson provided this southpaw a true joy.

 

[Confederate]

I understand the incompatibility with the Remington +Ps in some of the S&W pistols has been fixed for some time. I've talked to people who have shot them with no problem, and I think you'll have a problem only with older ammo.

The 645 has been known to feed empty (sized) cases right from the magazine. It's a bit larger than a stock 1911, but it's reliability makes it, to me, well worth having.

I'm a fan of the ultra-reliable autos on the market (Berettas, Sigs, Smiths, etc.), but 1911s just have not reached that reliability out of the box. I've seen these gorgeous, expensive Kimbers jam on firing lines all the time and I just can't get over the fact that they don't come out of the box working. To buy a gun at that price and then have it jam is just inexcusable.

But Smith can build the 645 and make them work at a fraction of the price. How is that possible?

 

[David E]

I understand the incompatibility with the Remington +Ps in some of the S&W pistols has been fixed for some time. I've talked to people who have shot them with no problem, and I think you'll have a problem only with older ammo.

They've certainly had time to fix it. But the problem did exist and, if you find an old box of Remington +P and fire it in a 645, the problem will manifest itself once again.

It's just something to be aware of.

 

[DougDubya]

But Smith can build the 645 and make them work at a fraction of the price. How is that possible?

Because Kimber isn't made to military specifications which allow for dirt and grit to be ignored by the operating surfaces. Mil-spec .45's run quite well. Many Kimbers are designed for better accuracy, being semi-custom models with pretty finishes and non-standard (at that time) features. With the increase in accuracy comes tighter tolerances for grit and detrious on the rails and feed ramps.

Smith and Wesson had been working on the 645 family since they developed the Model 52. There are stories of countless .45 prototypes, so they had a few decades of R&D at the ready (as well as all the work that had gone into the 39 and 59 series of autos) for when they decided to make a service pistol .45 auto.

They took their time to do it right.

As for the 1911 - if you want reliability, ignore the gorgeous .45's. Go with looser and business ready.

 

[Storm]

I've heard of the early Phillips-head safety screws coming loose, but all I did when I got the gun was to hit it with some Loc-Tite blue and it has never been an issue after many rounds. The gun continues to be one of my all-time favorites.

 

[JTQ]

Confederate wrote,
The 645 is eviidence that the profit margins on most 1911s are obscene and that a large .45ACP can be reliable right out of the box.

I'm a fan of the 4506 (and it's siblings), but don't let the years cloud your memory. The 645 has been out of production for many years and all the prices you are referring to are for old, used guns.

I bought a new S&W 4506 in 1988 for $595 and then a new Colt Combat Elite in 1990 for $653. To me, that is basically the same price and the Colt was not a baseline model which would have been about $100's less, two years later. Think what pistol prices were two years ago. I still have both pistols and enjoy them both.

If S&W was still producing the 645/4506, they would no doubt cost as much as S&W's comparative 1911's, though they would be less than the 945's.

This takes nothing away from the quality or value of the 4506, but their prices were, in their day, comparable to a 1911.

 

[Noveldoc]

Re: function issues. Remember the 1911 dates back to, well, 1911. The Smith goes to about 1988. Lots of advances in handgun engineering in 77 years methinks.

Sure many things have been done to clean up the old 1911 but nobody but them uses the old falling link barrel lockup any more.

Kinda like my Garand. Great rifle but gotta admit it ain't exactly modern. To start with, there is that 30-06 cartridge when folks nowadays can reach out and hurt someone with a much more efficient 7.62 NATO.

I plan on getting a 1911 clone late this year but, in my case, it, the garand and my old cowboy type Blackhawk 6 shooter will be there for the fun of historical interest.

But I am sort of hung up on the 4506 generation because I don't particularly like plastic guns. Granted Glocks are good but I can't stand their grips. IMHO, there are a lot of lousy plastic guns out there. Lighter weight for sure, but if I were a cop, I'd rather carry some more weight and go bang every time.

For what it is worth, I had an old 645 when I started to reload and I could not make it jam. Used it for my garbage disposal to shoot ammo my other 45s would not feed. And my 4506-1 feeds empty cases, unsized. Amazing.

For what it is worth, I bought a 645 and an AMT long slide stainless 45 about the same time. The AMT was around $50 more. And many of the Smiths are cheap now because they are cop turn ins with good mechanics but a lot of holster rash.

Tom

 

[DougDubya]

Actually, the 645 started in 1985, and owed much to the Model 39 which goes all the way back to 1949 (and thus received lots of updates in its decades of service).

 

[silversport]

...and wasn't the Model 39 a Walther P-38 copy???...it goes back farther than that ...
Bill

 

[JTQ]

nobody but them uses the old falling link barrel lockup any more.

Ruger P-90 still does.

 

[DougDubya]

...and wasn't the Model 39 a Walther P-38 copy???...it goes back farther than that ...
Bill

It was inspired by the P38, but the Model 39 had more Browning influences.

 

[silversport]

cool...thanks...figured that's why they called theirs a Model 39 (M-39) instead of M-38 (P-38)...
Bill

 

[LX Kid]

Finally broke down and bought the 645. Be here the end of next week and can't wait to see how it performs. Paid a little more than I wanted but seems to be in really great shape. This is the first .45 auto-loader S&W made (Second Gen). Going to put the grips on it as pictured below.

 

[David E]

If that's a picture of your gun with the one-piece grips, those grip panels will NOT work.

The one pictured is a transitional model between the original 645 (which had grip panels) and the 4506 that replaced it. (which has the one-piece grip)

 

[LX Kid]

Thanks David. I was kinda thinking that also because I didn't see any screws on the grips of the pistol I just bought. It is the one pictured above. Glad I hadn't bought the grips as of yet! Don't really like the look of the original grips that wrap around the back. Got any idea what will fit? Thanks

 

[David E]

Hogue makes some. They are bulkier, so if the gun barely fits your hand (especially trigger reach) now, then the Hogues will be too big.

Also, S&W offered their grip with an arched (like what's on the gun) and straight. (which I prefer on that gun)

 

[LX Kid]

My hands are small so maybe the Hogues probably wouldn't do. What does it look like under the wrap around grip? Can the frame be drilled and tapped for panel grips? If not, I swear I'll Super Glue some on!

 

[TonyT]

I purchased a new unfired (old dealer stcok) without box or paers with 4 mags for $500 sveral yeras ago. Mine has been super reliable with everything from bullseye pistol loads (185 gr. LSWC @720 fps) to fullpower jacketed bullet loads.

 

[MGW-Fla]

I've love my Stainless Tank 645. If you ever ran out of rounds, you could throw it at em & do almost as much damage as a round might!

I want to get another one. I found one locally a few months back, but he said he'd take $650 for it, which is a bit more than I want to pay for a 2nd one. But once you have one, you'll have a great appreciation it for the gun that it is.

I'll make a note about the grip difference on any I look at now, had not paid attention to that before. Mine has very nice after market wood grip panels.

 

[sctman800]

I bought a 645 a few years ago, will never get rid of it. Just bought a 4506 and it is great also, built like tanks and absolutely reliable so far. Jim.

 

[modifiedbrowning]

I have a 745 on layaway that I will be picking up at the end of the week. I can hardly wait.

 

[3845]

"Sized" cases? When I tried empties through my 4505 I just picked 'em up off the range floor. Worked great; I hadn't believed it until then. (Of course, they were sized .45!)

 

[Rob S. Pierre]

I just got one for $400.

 

[Yankee John]

I picked this one up for $450 with (4) mags a couple weeks ago. It came with the factory plastic grips- I added the wood stocks last week. I have about a 100 rounds thru it so far and I love it!!

John