I thought even S&W cautioned against a steady diet of regular .357 loads in k-frames? Let alone hot loaded hunting ammo. You wont find any such recomendation about the GP series. I do agree on the "refinement" thing though. But, that is pretty subjective.
S&W guys/gals only- should I buy a Ruger GP100?
- Thread starter chaim
- Start date
- Status
I thought even S&W cautioned against a steady diet of regular .357 loads in k-frames? Let alone hot loaded hunting ammo. You wont find any such recomendation about the GP series. I do agree on the "refinement" thing though. But, that is pretty subjective.
Frenchy
Member
Well!...Anyone that knows me knows that I'm a dyed in the wool Smith person, and I personally feel that they are the finest DA revolvers.
With that being said...if you have an itch...scratch it.
I have owned 4 single action Rugers however, and loved every one of them. I still regret selling my stainless Vaquero .45.
With that being said...if you have an itch...scratch it.
I have owned 4 single action Rugers however, and loved every one of them. I still regret selling my stainless Vaquero .45.
surfinUSA
Member
Tamara, I don't believe you and I have had any disagreements in any thread that you have called me on or not. Exactly which facts do I have incorrect? That S&W frames a forged, they are, or that Rugers are cast.
As far the strength of S&W magnums goes, a K is not as strong an N but will still hold up to a lifetime of factory magnum use. Some folks may have worn out or broken a K frame magnum over years of heavy use, but the majority of us that use factory magnums never wear them out.
I can't speak for the individual craziness of some reloaders, but I know K frames that have with stood years of abuse. Although I certainly would never recomend it.
Alot of people come here with little or no firearms knowlege, they should not be left with the false impression that there S&W K frame 357 may be weak or somehow unsafe for magnum use. In reality they are perfectly safe and thats why they are still being marketed. Also I have never received a warning from S&W regarding the exclusive use of magnum rounds in a gun chambered for them.
As far the strength of S&W magnums goes, a K is not as strong an N but will still hold up to a lifetime of factory magnum use. Some folks may have worn out or broken a K frame magnum over years of heavy use, but the majority of us that use factory magnums never wear them out.
I can't speak for the individual craziness of some reloaders, but I know K frames that have with stood years of abuse. Although I certainly would never recomend it.
Alot of people come here with little or no firearms knowlege, they should not be left with the false impression that there S&W K frame 357 may be weak or somehow unsafe for magnum use. In reality they are perfectly safe and thats why they are still being marketed. Also I have never received a warning from S&W regarding the exclusive use of magnum rounds in a gun chambered for them.
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Thirties
Member
Chaim, maybe you are looking at the "wrong" Ruger revolver . . . maybe you really need to think Single Action Ruger.
I'm not joking here. I think of myself as a Smith and Wesson fan (I've got three K frames). I bought a Ruger "Vaquerito" .32H&Rmagnun, then I bought a second one. Now I've got a Marlin m1894CB32 on order, and I just picked up a Marlin m1894C in .357.
Have you considered expanding your collection to SA revos? Ruger makes very fine ones indeed. How about a nice blue .357 Vaquero with bird's head grips and a 4 5/8" barrel? Now you can have your cake (S&W), and eat it too (Ruger Vaquero). Besides, the Ruger Vaquero seems much less bulky and blunt that the GP100s (my opinion). Nothing esle is a Smith, as you know . . .
The only reason to buy a Ruger GP100 is to fire heavily loaded/overloaded .357 ammo. If that kind of thing turns you on, then maybe a GP100 is for you.
I'm not joking here. I think of myself as a Smith and Wesson fan (I've got three K frames). I bought a Ruger "Vaquerito" .32H&Rmagnun, then I bought a second one. Now I've got a Marlin m1894CB32 on order, and I just picked up a Marlin m1894C in .357.
Have you considered expanding your collection to SA revos? Ruger makes very fine ones indeed. How about a nice blue .357 Vaquero with bird's head grips and a 4 5/8" barrel? Now you can have your cake (S&W), and eat it too (Ruger Vaquero). Besides, the Ruger Vaquero seems much less bulky and blunt that the GP100s (my opinion). Nothing esle is a Smith, as you know . . .
The only reason to buy a Ruger GP100 is to fire heavily loaded/overloaded .357 ammo. If that kind of thing turns you on, then maybe a GP100 is for you.
Sean Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
That's a stupid reason to get a gun anyway. Get what you actually want, not what you think you should want. Of course, I'm a Python snob, so you should ignore everything I say .357-wise anyway.
fallingblock
Member
chaim, I like my GP-100 a lot....
It is perfectly timed and smooth as any of the past four S&W's I've bought.
I believe there isn't much difference these days between the two brands as far as triggers go. More likely "luck of the draw".
I did manage to shoot a model 13 S&W out of time with fewer than 500 factory .357 loads years ago.
While that may have been a fluke, the K-frame S&W is definitely NOT up to a steady diet of hot .357's, while the Ruger will digest them until you get tired.
You ought to get the GP-100 just to compare it with the others.
It is perfectly timed and smooth as any of the past four S&W's I've bought.
I believe there isn't much difference these days between the two brands as far as triggers go. More likely "luck of the draw".
I did manage to shoot a model 13 S&W out of time with fewer than 500 factory .357 loads years ago.
While that may have been a fluke, the K-frame S&W is definitely NOT up to a steady diet of hot .357's, while the Ruger will digest them until you get tired.
You ought to get the GP-100 just to compare it with the others.
OMCHamlin
Member
I'm a Smith guy at heart (between the wife and I we have 10), but I had a similar itch last year and scratched it with a Security Six, stainless 4" that I got off Guns America for a bargain price. Since then, the gun has had a hand polish to the exterior, a Bowen rear sight installed, Hogues added and some light internal polish done. It is very accurate and overall, I'm very happy with it. Though not as "beefy" as a GP, it's a plenty strong .357 in a more "packable" size that feels very good to me. My two gripes about it? 1. I want a post front sight, I don't like ramps, I lose them in the wrong light conditions. 2. I'm going to find someone good to go at that DA trigger pull, it's got a bit of a mid travel stage that I find annoying. Maybe you should at least hold an older Security Six (or Speed Six, since you are a 3 incher fan) and see what you think. They are out there and often at good prices.
Chris
Chris
Don't buy the Ruger GP 100. Instead, spend your money on a gun you really WANT, not one you just think you should have. If you are already a die-hard Smith Fan, the Ruger is just going to dissapoint you in some way, even if only every time you look at it you think of the money you have in it that you could have spent on a Smith.
I'm not knocking Ruger revo's here. I'm just saying that it sounds like you know what you REALLY like and you're just trying to talk yourself into sometime you think you should have an interest in, but don't really care about.
Personally, I don't care for the GP 100 that I've fired and it soured me on revolvers for a long time until I got a Smith 28-2. Now, even though I admire the ruggedness of a Ruger GP 100, I wouldn't spend my money on even if it cost 1/2 as much as a nice Smith. They just don't do it for me, and it sounds to me like they won't do it for you in the end either.
I'm not knocking Ruger revo's here. I'm just saying that it sounds like you know what you REALLY like and you're just trying to talk yourself into sometime you think you should have an interest in, but don't really care about.
Personally, I don't care for the GP 100 that I've fired and it soured me on revolvers for a long time until I got a Smith 28-2. Now, even though I admire the ruggedness of a Ruger GP 100, I wouldn't spend my money on even if it cost 1/2 as much as a nice Smith. They just don't do it for me, and it sounds to me like they won't do it for you in the end either.
Stainz
Member
I shot a friend's 6" GP-100 that had a super-trigger/spring job. Too light... several ftf's occured with his .357 PMC ammo - my Federal-primed homebrews worked fine. My first .38/.357's were the 2" 10 and 6" 66 I bought new from a closeout dealer last year. The 66 took my then destined GP-100 money (I have wanted one - a 4" SS - for years.). The 66 got a set of lower power Wolff springs, a Hoque gozalo alves monogrip, and front HiViz sight the day it came home. Both broke-in quite well - and have seen mostly (99%) my homebrews. They were both made last year - the 66 even has the hammer-lock-zit (Just a blemish to me... certainly not a deterrent to my purchase!). My 66 is slicker, barely, than that GP-100. I fired one of the ftf PMC .357 Magnums from that 66 in it - ouch! The bigger and heavier GP-100 is a better launch platform for stout .357M rounds - I knew that when I bought the 66 - it was bought to launch .38 Specials - and similar loads in .357 cases. It is super for that. It's dimunitive forcing cone appears to be the limiting factor. S&W will tell you, if you call them, that a 66 is designed for commercial .357 Magnum ammo.
My first DA revolver, after several SA Rugers, had the GP-100 lockwork and grip - in a 'larger' frame - a .454 SRH. It broke-in to a good trigger - actually, at the time, it was my reference. I still love the SRH and it has a steady home - and I still want a GP-100. My first S&W, a 625 Mountain Gun in .45 Colt, introduced me to a new marque - and a new way (DA) of shooting. My next DA was a 4" 625 in .45ACP. Now... if you want to 'jump in' to the DA revolver world - in an N-frame big bore - you can't beat a 625 in .45ACP. You can buy a box of ammo anywhere - 230gr FMJ .45ACP's are $10/50 at Wally World. Try to find .45 Colts...
So what do you get? The 66's are fine - especially if you plan on a lot of .38 plinking and little .357 Magnum use. They are a bit more than the GP-100 new. The 686+ is close to what that 625 will cost... But, that GP-100 can be fine-tuned - it, too, dramatically improves with a proper break-in. It sounds like you 'want' the GP-100, too. You really can't make a bad decision. Whatever you get - shoot it and enjoy it!
Stainz
PS The .454 SRH was bought as my first DA revolver to launch my favorite .45 Colts... which it does quite well. It also will make a big bang.
My first DA revolver, after several SA Rugers, had the GP-100 lockwork and grip - in a 'larger' frame - a .454 SRH. It broke-in to a good trigger - actually, at the time, it was my reference. I still love the SRH and it has a steady home - and I still want a GP-100. My first S&W, a 625 Mountain Gun in .45 Colt, introduced me to a new marque - and a new way (DA) of shooting. My next DA was a 4" 625 in .45ACP. Now... if you want to 'jump in' to the DA revolver world - in an N-frame big bore - you can't beat a 625 in .45ACP. You can buy a box of ammo anywhere - 230gr FMJ .45ACP's are $10/50 at Wally World. Try to find .45 Colts...
So what do you get? The 66's are fine - especially if you plan on a lot of .38 plinking and little .357 Magnum use. They are a bit more than the GP-100 new. The 686+ is close to what that 625 will cost... But, that GP-100 can be fine-tuned - it, too, dramatically improves with a proper break-in. It sounds like you 'want' the GP-100, too. You really can't make a bad decision. Whatever you get - shoot it and enjoy it!
Stainz
PS The .454 SRH was bought as my first DA revolver to launch my favorite .45 Colts... which it does quite well. It also will make a big bang.
Lobotomy Boy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2004
- Messages
- 2,449
I'm both a Ruger guy and a Smith guy. Most of the wheelguns I've owned have been Smiths, though I have owned a Super Blackhawk and a P89. My next purchase is going to be a Ruger Blackhawk Convertible because I want a single-action revolver capable of shooting cheap 9mm ammo at the range, yet also capable of shooting .357 ammo (my parents have a serious mountain lion problem at their farm). There is only one such gun.
But for my next double action revolver, it will depend entirely on what I find. If I find a nice Model 27 or 29 at a reasonable price, I'll buy it. They are my favorite revolvers, bar none. But if I run across a sweet deal on a GP100 or a Redhawk (or a good deal on a 66 or 686), I'll probably jump on it. All are fantastic guns. The trigger action is initially noticably better on a Smith, but Rugers really do improve with use. Buy a firing cap and dry fire it a couple hundred times if you are impatient.
Ultimately all these guns are so good that your choice depends on your personal preferences. Buy the gun that makes your heart skip a beat.
But for my next double action revolver, it will depend entirely on what I find. If I find a nice Model 27 or 29 at a reasonable price, I'll buy it. They are my favorite revolvers, bar none. But if I run across a sweet deal on a GP100 or a Redhawk (or a good deal on a 66 or 686), I'll probably jump on it. All are fantastic guns. The trigger action is initially noticably better on a Smith, but Rugers really do improve with use. Buy a firing cap and dry fire it a couple hundred times if you are impatient.
Ultimately all these guns are so good that your choice depends on your personal preferences. Buy the gun that makes your heart skip a beat.
chaim
Member
That is my biggest worry. When I bought my Marlin 60 rifle I loved it at first (it was my first rifle) but after a few months I started thinking that I should have bought a Ruger 10/22 for just a little more. For quite some time I hated it- every time I looked at it all I could think was that for $50 more I could have had the Ruger. It wasn't until I bought a 10/22 that I realized that I liked the Marlin far better and I finally loved that gun again (meanwhile I wasn't crazy about that 10/22 and whenever I looked at it all I could see was either that I should have bought a stainless Marlin 60 or try the Remington
). Additionally, as I stated I'm a Smith guy, and whenever I think I might get the GP100 all I can think about is that for that price I can get a new M10 or M64, 2 used K-frames (one .357mag and one slightly cheaper .38spl), a used L-frame with money for ammo or a new .357mag with just a little more money.However, there is the other side.
That may well be the biggest reason I keep considering the GP100. First, I do occasionally get asked by people what I suggest, and it would be nice to actually have ownership experience with another make (my advice would be more informed). Second, I love .357mags and I'd love to eventually have one of each of the main players (even though I almost hate my Colt PPS I will probably even get a Trooper and I need to someday own a Python- I've never felt a nicer DA trigger).
I am a Smith guy, but thinking back to my Marlin that I hated for over a year because I could have had the Ruger 10/22 and getting the Ruger made me realize that I love the Marlin. Well, what if I'm a Smith guy because I've never owned the Ruger? Not likely, but more realistically, maybe once I got it I'd love it far more than I think. Also, I decided against that gun way back before I ever owned a gun and I was renting them to see what I like- I don't like rubber grips and their rubber/wood combo is about the worst I've tried. Back then I didn't realize how easy it was to switch out grips (or I guess I did, but I wanted it to be "right" right out of the box). Well, now I wonder if perhaps I'd like the gun with a nice set of wood stocks on it.
Oh, as for everyone who implies or says outright that K-frame .357s can't take magnums- you are wrong (at least in my experience). Sure the older ones had some problems with certain loads but long ago S&W strengthened the K-frame. Heck, even the older K-frames can take regular use of many magnum loads. The thinner forcing cone has problems with regular use of the light 110 and 125gr loads. However, the 158s are fine. I've shot thousands of 158gr magnums, hundreds of 110s and 125s, and thousands of rounds of various .38s and .38+Ps out of my S&W 65LS and there is no forcing cone or topstrap damage. I have an older M19 (P&R) that I bought about a year ago. I haven't shot it as much as my 65LS but until a few weeks ago I had never shot a .38spl out of it, only 158gr magnums (plus who knows what went through it before I got it)- it is in exceptional condition (if not for minor finish wear it would be like new). Of course, when I want to go all out (the few times I get "experimental" with my hand loads for instance) I can use my L-frame S&W 586.
fallingblock
Member
A K Frame Smith won't take as many .357's...
"Oh, as for everyone who implies or says outright that K-frame .357s can't take magnums- you are wrong (at least in my experience)."
************************************************************
As a GP-100 will .
And, suspected fluke or not, that 1982 Model 13 S&W of mine was out of time to the point of dangerous in less than 500 rounds (from new) of Speer 158 gr. .357's.
The two Ruger Speed Sixes I had at the same time just kept on ticking with the same ammo.
The K-frame's basic design is over 100 years old, and S&W admitted as much by going to the L-frame.
If you value your K-frame, you oughtn't shoot a lot of .357 mags from it.
"Oh, as for everyone who implies or says outright that K-frame .357s can't take magnums- you are wrong (at least in my experience)."
************************************************************
As a GP-100 will
.And, suspected fluke or not, that 1982 Model 13 S&W of mine was out of time to the point of dangerous in less than 500 rounds (from new) of Speer 158 gr. .357's.
The two Ruger Speed Sixes I had at the same time just kept on ticking with the same ammo.
The K-frame's basic design is over 100 years old, and S&W admitted as much by going to the L-frame.
If you value your K-frame, you oughtn't shoot a lot of .357 mags from it.
surfinUSA
Member
Fallingblock,
The K frame design may be 100 years old, but it is still the basic design of S&W revolvers to this day. A real testament to its strength.
Heat treating and steel alloys have come along way in the past 100 years not to mention the past 50 that the K frame magnum has been around.
And finally, the fact that the K frame line of magnums is still around 25 years after the introduction of the L frame is an absolute confirmation that they are perfectly safe with factory magnum rounds. Had this not been the case the L frame would have replaced the K frame in magnum chamberings but that is not the case.
The K frame design may be 100 years old, but it is still the basic design of S&W revolvers to this day. A real testament to its strength.
Heat treating and steel alloys have come along way in the past 100 years not to mention the past 50 that the K frame magnum has been around.
And finally, the fact that the K frame line of magnums is still around 25 years after the introduction of the L frame is an absolute confirmation that they are perfectly safe with factory magnum rounds. Had this not been the case the L frame would have replaced the K frame in magnum chamberings but that is not the case.
fallingblock
Member
but surfinusa.......
"The K frame design may be 100 years old, but it is still the basic design of S&W revolvers to this day. A real testament to its strength."
************************************************************
The K-frame was never designed for magnum pressures.
The K-frame was "magnumized" only to give the cop on the beat a lighter holster gun than the N-frames which were used for the original .357 magnum.
The K-frame does not have the reinforcement in critical areas of its frame to withstand a steady diet of hot .357 magnum loads.
Heat treatment can only do so much, then extra frame and/or redesign is called for. That's why the L-frame made its appearance.
************************************************************
"And finally, the fact that the K frame line of magnums is still around 25 years after the introduction of the L frame is an absolute confirmation that they are perfectly safe with factory magnum rounds."
************************************************************
No, it's vindication of the concept of a light magnum service revolver:
to be carried a lot and not shot much with full-power magnums.
K-frames are certainly safe with magnum loads, until the pounding begins to loosen them up, as with my poor Model 13.
************************************************************
" Had this not been the case the L frame would have replaced the K frame in magnum chamberings but that is not the case."
************************************************************
No, the L-frame is an design upgrade by S&W which provides them with a product to match the sturdy Ruger concept of a revolver that can withstand unlimited use of .357 magnums.
The L-frame is bigger and bulkier than the K-frame, and for a "carry-a-lot, practice with .38 Special, and load Magnums for duty" gun, the K-frame magnum makes perfect sense.
"The K frame design may be 100 years old, but it is still the basic design of S&W revolvers to this day. A real testament to its strength."
************************************************************
The K-frame was never designed for magnum pressures.
The K-frame was "magnumized" only to give the cop on the beat a lighter holster gun than the N-frames which were used for the original .357 magnum.
The K-frame does not have the reinforcement in critical areas of its frame to withstand a steady diet of hot .357 magnum loads.
Heat treatment can only do so much, then extra frame and/or redesign is called for. That's why the L-frame made its appearance.
************************************************************
"And finally, the fact that the K frame line of magnums is still around 25 years after the introduction of the L frame is an absolute confirmation that they are perfectly safe with factory magnum rounds."
************************************************************
No, it's vindication of the concept of a light magnum service revolver:
to be carried a lot and not shot much with full-power magnums.
K-frames are certainly safe with magnum loads, until the pounding begins to loosen them up, as with my poor Model 13.
************************************************************
" Had this not been the case the L frame would have replaced the K frame in magnum chamberings but that is not the case."
************************************************************
No, the L-frame is an design upgrade by S&W which provides them with a product to match the sturdy Ruger concept of a revolver that can withstand unlimited use of .357 magnums.
The L-frame is bigger and bulkier than the K-frame, and for a "carry-a-lot, practice with .38 Special, and load Magnums for duty" gun, the K-frame magnum makes perfect sense.
Tamara
Senior Member
fallingblock,
If your 13 shot loose in "a few hundred rounds", there was something more wrong with it than just being a K-frame.
Yes, a K-frame will give up the ghost faster than an L-frame under a steady diet of magnum loads, but we're talking many, many thousands of rounds, here. Tens of thousands if one stays away from maximum loadings.
If your 13 shot loose in "a few hundred rounds", there was something more wrong with it than just being a K-frame.
Yes, a K-frame will give up the ghost faster than an L-frame under a steady diet of magnum loads, but we're talking many, many thousands of rounds, here. Tens of thousands if one stays away from maximum loadings.
fallingblock
Member
Hi Tamara.......
"If your 13 shot loose in "a few hundred rounds", there was something more wrong with it than just being a K-frame."
************************************************************
Yes, I suspect that there was. It was new in 1982, which was not one of S&W's "high QC" eras. The main problem was rapidly-developed endshake with the Speer 158 grain "penta points", which were loaded hot by the standards of the day.
Interestingly enough, the two Ruger Speed Sixes I owned at the time digested far more of them with no problems, and the Speed Six isn't as tough as the GP-100.
************************************************************
"Tens of thousands if one stays away from maximum loadings."
************************************************************
That was not my (admittedly limited) experience, nor was it the experience of the Anderson Indiana Police Department, who finally had to caution the patrol officers to limit their practice firing to +P Specials to keep their old "K magnums" in service. SOme of that cop ammo of the late '60's & early '70's
was fairly hot.
The Speer loadings I was using were issue rounds in some departments, and they were probably pretty close to maximum (I got 'em for free, so the cost balanced out)
Both Rugers ran through quite a few of them after the Model 13 gave up the game.
************************************************************
"Yes, a K-frame will give up the ghost faster than an L-frame under a steady diet of magnum loads..."
************************************************************
It certainly will!
I'm happy with that analysis.
"If your 13 shot loose in "a few hundred rounds", there was something more wrong with it than just being a K-frame."
************************************************************
Yes, I suspect that there was. It was new in 1982, which was not one of S&W's "high QC" eras. The main problem was rapidly-developed endshake with the Speer 158 grain "penta points", which were loaded hot by the standards of the day.
Interestingly enough, the two Ruger Speed Sixes I owned at the time digested far more of them with no problems, and the Speed Six isn't as tough as the GP-100.
************************************************************
"Tens of thousands if one stays away from maximum loadings."
************************************************************
That was not my (admittedly limited) experience, nor was it the experience of the Anderson Indiana Police Department, who finally had to caution the patrol officers to limit their practice firing to +P Specials to keep their old "K magnums" in service. SOme of that cop ammo of the late '60's & early '70's
was fairly hot.
The Speer loadings I was using were issue rounds in some departments, and they were probably pretty close to maximum (I got 'em for free, so the cost balanced out)
Both Rugers ran through quite a few of them after the Model 13 gave up the game.
************************************************************
"Yes, a K-frame will give up the ghost faster than an L-frame under a steady diet of magnum loads..."
************************************************************
It certainly will!
I'm happy with that analysis.
Rob96
Member
This is indeed true as I had both, and still own the GP-100.It is all a matter of what you prefer.
Rob96
Member
Here is someones experience with their Model 19 and what S&W told them.
http://forums.stoppingpower.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3993
http://forums.stoppingpower.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3993
gulogulo1970
Member
I own a few Colts, a Smith and a Ruger.
The Smith was nicer than I expected (being a life long Colt snob).
My Ruger a SP-101 is one great gun. I know you want a GP-100, lock work is pretty much the same. The only thing I don't like about the Ruger is the coil spring when you pulll the trigger. You can feel it twang or vibrate in the palm of your hand when you shoot it. Not that big of a gripe but one of note. Trigger is heavier than the Smith, but mine is more accurate than my Smith.
The Smith was nicer than I expected (being a life long Colt snob).
My Ruger a SP-101 is one great gun. I know you want a GP-100, lock work is pretty much the same. The only thing I don't like about the Ruger is the coil spring when you pulll the trigger. You can feel it twang or vibrate in the palm of your hand when you shoot it. Not that big of a gripe but one of note. Trigger is heavier than the Smith, but mine is more accurate than my Smith.
Penforhire
Member
A big part of the reason I choose each gun I own is emotional. The Ruger wheel guns do not appeal to me, for whatever reason. I see no reason to own every brand just to compare them. That's what shooting buddies are for
On a tangential note, I've always wanted an older 6" Python. Why? Because of how it looks and its reputation. Zero other reason than that. Isn't that enough reason?
On a tangential note, I've always wanted an older 6" Python. Why? Because of how it looks and its reputation. Zero other reason than that. Isn't that enough reason?
J Scott
Member
no.
J Scott
J Scott
- Status