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S&W M&P45 vs Glock 21

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Ben86, Sep 28, 2010.

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  1. Ben86

    Ben86 Member

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    I'd like to collect some opinions on these two guns. I am trying to decide on which is going to be my first .45. I have a couple months to decide which one I want, so I'm trying to really make an informed decision on this one.

    I'm a big Glock fan, but I've also shot the M&P9C and M&P40C in the past and have a high opinion them. As far as I see it the M&P has better ergos going for it and the Glock has familiarity. I'm stuck and can't seem to decide. I shoot both well, with maybe a slight advantage going to the M&P. Any thoughts or opinions of comparison would be appreciated.
     
  2. LeLynn

    LeLynn Member

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    In my opinion, both are very reliable pistols. You stated that the M&P wins is the ergonomics department (I feel the same way). As or familiarity, both are quite simple, and while you may be more familiar with the Glock, the M&P will take little time to become familiar with. My vote is for the M&P, simply because I prefer the ergos over the Glocks, plus the fact that I reload in order to keep training/practice costs down and you are not supposed to reload for Glocks (I know people will argue this point). I have shot both but chose to buy the M&P. Good luck with whatever you decide on, both are great guns in there own way.
     
  3. bds

    bds Member

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    If you go with M&P45, I highly recommend the Apex sear or trigger job.

    M&P45 has much better ergonomic controls and less felt recoil.

    If you reload, especially lead, M&P has tight chamber and barrel that do not lead with Missouri Bullets with the proper load (i.e. 5.0 gr W231/HP38). M&P45 feeds/chambers 200 gr SWC very well.

    Although Glock mags are cheaper, you get two free mags M&P purchase.
     
  4. postalnut25

    postalnut25 Member

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    A G21 is one of the only guns I've ever sold. Not that it didn't perform, but it was just too big. I bought an M&P 45 for a girlfiend, and the grip size being ssmaller made it easier to shoot well. Both have had zero reliablity or accuracy issues. It was based completely on the feel of the gun.
     
  5. Full Metal Jacket

    Full Metal Jacket member

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    i had the mp45c. never jammed, even with corbon +p 165gr jhp sierras.

    also owned a g21sf that never jammed either.

    the glock trigger is superior. the mp45's come with a heavier pull than the 9/40 mp's for some reason. the pull really sucks. not sure how much better the apex sear makes it.
     
  6. bds

    bds Member

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    A lot. Factory M&P45 trigger pull is 7 lbs.

    Factory sear has an oval shaped front area that trigger bar glides under to push back on the striker and release to fire. This is the source of the heavy pull you experience when you pull the trigger. Apex hard sear removes about 1/3 of this contact area to lighten the pull to 4 lbs and smooth out the trigger pull. Also, the back of sear that rides against the striker release is more rounded for more crisp release.

    I did about 50% of trigger job matching the angle of the Apex sear and polishing all trigger contact surfaces, including a slight rounding of the back of the sear. Now, the trigger pull is more like 4.5-5.0 lbs of my G22 and it is much more smooth and has cleaner release.

    I ran through about 2000+ dry/range fire trigger pull cycles and shot groups were around 3" at 10 yards. After the 50% trigger/polish job, my shot groups shrank less than 1"-2" at 10 yards. I had several people shoot the M&P45 after the trigger job and they confirm that it is better than their Glock triggers.
     
  7. bartman06

    bartman06 Member

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    I traded my G21 for my M&P 45. I really liked the Glock but love my M&P. The only big difference i thought besides the ergos is the mag capacity. I did the apex sear and its really smoothed out the trigger. Both are great guns but my pick is the M&P.
     
  8. legion3

    legion3 Member

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    Other than some rust issues with M&P's (and not all were old versions soem were as recent as 2009) the M&P trigger is different from a Glock in the trigger reset department. If, like me, you are used to shooting the Glock via the trigger reset then the M&P's trigger might bother you somewhat.

    The M&P to me feels like it has no reset whatsoever, a full trigger stroke is required (similar to the Beretta PX4) to fire the gun again.

    If you don't use the trigger reset then the M&P should not bother you.

    Also I don't get the ergo's argument? I understand it for the grip angle, which does not bother me or apparently lots of shooters world wide, but I have not ever had an M&P that felt great in my hand. To much palm swell for me.

    I assume I could monkey with it to get the palm swell down but for me why? I like other guns that do the same job.
     
  9. bds

    bds Member

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    The Apex sear or the trigger job reduces the trigger reset comparable to Glock trigger reset. It really makes a huge difference.
     
  10. Prion

    Prion Member

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    M&P +1
     
  11. Taroman

    Taroman Member

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    Flame suit on.
    Not a 21, but I have owned/carried a Glock 30 since they first came out. In the LGS, I handled the M&P 45. Wow, perfect ergos. Love at first touch.
    It shot very well after I spent the $$ for an Apex kit.
    But-no matter what load, commercial, or reload, I tried, in my hands the Glock always shot a bit better.
    End of story, the M&P was traded off even before the "free" magazines arrived from S&W.
     
  12. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

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    I'd go with the Glock. Keeping in mind I own a Glock 20 instead of a Glock 21, and have no experience with the S&W...

    Glock magazines and parts are cheaper and more readily available. Glock 21 mags can be had for about $22 and found nearly anywhere, S&W M&P45 mags run about 50% more and while not scarce by any means, have no where near the availability. So sure the S&W may come with one more, but if you're trying to get a proper set of five, the Glock will be cheaper and easier to do it with. The Glock also has a host of OEM and aftermarket parts available. The Glock is simple enough that the vast majority can be installed by the user at home in minutes with little in the way of tools. I don't know if the same can be said about the S&W. And in the future, a trip through cyber-space to LoneWolf Dist will open a whole new universe to you with a Glock 21--it's modularity is unparalleled in the pistol world. An extended threaded .45 ACP barrel for a future suppressor? Check. A longslide 10mm Auto upper? 200 gr XTPs at 1400 fps? Check. Or you could go with a Guncrafter .50 GI conversion. So many options with the Glock that the S&W can't touch. Probably more for holster options too cause the Glock has been around a while.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2010
  13. Ben86

    Ben86 Member

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    The trigger on the m&ps don't really bother me, I'm perfectly happy with the trigger of my kahr pm9. That is a rather long, heavy, mushy trigger with a loooong reset. But, its really smooth and I shoot it well, and that's all that really matters. Although I must say I do prefer the glock trigger because of its predictable, clean break. I'm going to look into the apex thing.

    Before I can buy this .45 I have to buy my wife the m&p9C that she has her heart set on. This will give me a good medium to verify what I personally thing of the m&p platform versus the glock platform.

    It is kind of a bummer that the m&p has less aftermarket support. But, as its popularity continues to rise I'm sure that will change.

    The capacity of the m&p45 is somewhat lacking. But, I suppose that's the necessary trade of for a thinner grip. Which I suppose is worth it if you shoot the gun better.
     
  14. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

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    If you shoot both well, do you shoot either of them well more easily?

    I have a M&P 45 full-size which has seen a bit more than 3K rounds through it. The trigger on the M&P 45 is typically 7 lbs with a +/- 2 lbs tolerance (versus the 6 1/2 lb +/- 2 lbs of the other calibers). When I checked mine NIB I got some averaged readings on my digital gauge of 8 1/2 - 9+ lbs, which is obviously on the heavy end.

    That did not, however, prevent me from experiencing excellent accuracy. I just had to work at it a bit harder. I was shooting a G21SF about the same time, belonging to another instructor, and while the G21 had a trigger which felt a bit lighter, it also felt stiffer and didn't have the same predictable 'break' as the M&P. I could shoot the G21SF well, but I had to work harder at it than the M&P with the heavier trigger. One of those weird situations that sometimes happen. ;)

    Now, after I'd run about 2,500 rounds through my M&P45 I noticed that I received a revised striker assembly in a parts order one day. My trigger had already become much smoother and seemingly lighter, although I hadn't checked it on the gauge again, but I was curious how the new striker assembly might feel (if any different), so I replaced the original one with the new one. It felt pretty nice, and seemed even a bit smoother and lighter, even though the new assembly had a new striker spring (versus the one which had seen some usage in the original assembly).

    I finally got out the digital gauge and ran a couple of averaged trigger weight using the new striker assembly. I got readings of 5 1/2 - 6 lbs. Nice. Bear in mind that this is in stock conditions, too.

    I tried a 2010 production M&P 45c recently and found the trigger felt lighter and smoother than mine had felt NIB. I didn't have my digital gauge at the range so I couldn't check the actual weight of the trigger, though. It was better than mine had been, however.

    I'm planning to order a M&P 45c of my own in the coming months.

    Also, a couple of the guys are planning to order the Apex sear and try it in their M&P 45's, so I'll see what difference it makes compared to the stock sear.

    One thing I suppose I could mention is that the instructor who owns the G21SF I mentioned was curious about the M&P 45, so I let him use it one day. He's a Glock owner/shooter and had been working trying to improve his accuracy with the G21 for several weeks. The first time he tried the M&P 45 he did much better, more easily, than he was able top do with his G21SF. he ordered a M&P 45 of his own shortly afterward. He's keeping the G21SF last I heard, at least for the time being, as he likes .45's and doesn't mind owning each of them ... but he's pretty enthusiastic about the M&P 45.

    I think the M&P 45 is going to be a strong seller for S&W.

    I also think that each person ought to decide for themselves which they prefer.

    As an armorer for both Glock and the M&P there are features I like on each. However, I tend to like the Glock best when chambered in 9mm, and the M&P best when chambered in .45 ACP. That's just me, though.

    Luck with you and your decision. ;)
     
  15. Thaddeus Jones

    Thaddeus Jones Member

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    Another vote for the Glock 21.

    I agree with the comments on the M&P's trigger, and the indistinct reset also.

    Yes, I know you can order an "Apex kit". Why should I have to do that for what S&W charges for their M&P??

    Other than to law enforcement, its not like they are giving them away. :)
     
  16. Prion

    Prion Member

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    Because it's cheaper than the surgery you'll need to match your wrist angle to the Glock's grip angle:p

    Seriously though, M&P's aren't overpriced in my experience.

    Plus, doing mods to ones guns is a time honored tradition and it's fun!

    Get the M&P!
     
  17. legion3

    legion3 Member

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  18. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    If you're used to the Glock stay with the Glock platform. Nothing wrong with the S&W. I had one for a while. Good gun, but it does nothing the Glock won't do. It holds 3 fewer rounds and mags are more expensive.

    The feel of the grip is arguably better on the Smith, but this is a very overrated reason to buy a gun. The human hand is amazingly adaptive and will conform to almost any grip shape. Having to get used to 2 different grips and 2 very different trigger pulls are more of a problem in my opinion.
     
  19. BlayGlock

    BlayGlock Member

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    I owned and shot both. Im much more of a Glock fan, however, I feel that the M&P shot a little better and had less felt recoil. Ive used an Apex sear in my M&P 9 and it does make a difference. Im sure it would in the 45 as well. Now if we were talking about 9mm, Glock 19 all day long.

    I did find that my M&P's finish was more rust prone than my Glocks.

    Also the Apex sear is very easy to install, you can look up how to do it on Apex's youtube page. It took me less than 10 mins.
     
  20. Mags

    Mags Member

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    I have shot both and own neither.

    The M&P has a low capacity of only 10 rounds compared to other poly pistols of it's size. The M&P 45 shoots nice to me even without an Apex job, but I did get the APex job on my M&P9c. The M&P also has nice ergos, but if the Glock ergos suit you I would go with the Glock. The Glock has a better trigger and is more affordable to tune. It also has 13 rounds standard capacity I think and is a great shooter.
     
  21. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    I like the M&P much better than the Glock 21, due to superior hand fit and less bulk making it more practical for concealed carry, despite three fewer rounds. (I have not tried the newer SF version, but the excessive thickness remains.)
     
  22. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    My feeling on capacity is this: if you need more than 10 rounds of .45ACP you either picked the wrong gun fight or you shouldn't be allowed to touch a firearm.

    On ergos: so long as you can learn to manipulate all necessary functions and control the pistol they aren't nearly as important as reliability. Both the M&P and Glock are proven, reliable performers though I've not seen a single M&P kaboom post to date. Could someone link that?

    On trigger: lawyers and liberals (along with their elected judges) have made decent stock triggers a far away memory and anyone serious about their firearm should plan on trigger work. With the Apex sear and striker block installed, the Glock can't touch the M&P on feel, weight or reset. (note there are several Apex kits that lighten trigger pull to just a bit under stock to competition only sub-3 lb.)

    Aftermarket support: what ain't broke don't need "support" (just kidding) Check out: http://www.speedshooterspecialties.com/catalog/display.php?category=Smith+%26+Wesson+M%26P+45. Everything from threaded barrels to base pads, springs to sears and sights. If you want more, buy a Swiss Army Knife.

    I have DeSantis, Galco and Uncle Mike's holsters for my M&Ps but BlackHawk, Safariland, Bianchi, Fobus, Blade Tech, Comp-tac, Crossbreed, Don Hume, G&G, Hunter, Ross Leather and a few others make compatible holsters as well. In fact the Glock Sport holster for the G21 also fits the M&P, oh yeah, there's options.

    I won't even get into the plastic sights that can snap off at a critical time as that would make me look like a Glock hater but don't let rediculous arguements decide for you which brand to buy. You'll find that decision is much more personal than an internet chat in which strangers pointed out their favorite. If you're looking to personalize either one and don't mind spending a bit to do it right have a look here: http://www.bowietacticalconcepts.com/index.html.

    Best of luck, don't loose too much sleep as you've got two great choices and either one should serve you fine.
     
  23. David E

    David E Member

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    If the Glock, consider the 21-SF

    Also consider the XD and (my choice) XDM, both in .45

    Either one has the same 13+1 capacity of the Glock with a much more ergonomic shape and feel. The XDM< also has 3 interchangeable backstraps to fine tune a custom fit to your hand.
     
  24. Phil W

    Phil W Member

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    Love my M&P. Had 2 Glocks and traded both. Just didn't feel right. Can't complain about their reliabilty though.
     
  25. Full Metal Jacket

    Full Metal Jacket member

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    yeah the entire upper assembly, slide, sites, barrel and all, are rusted on the mp45c i sold to a relative. sent it in to s&w for him last week. never seen a gun rust like that before....
     
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