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S&W M&Ps in Iraq

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by rbernie, Dec 9, 2008.

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  1. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

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    Found this interesting:

    http://ir.smith-wesson.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=90977&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1220183

     
  2. tinroad37e

    tinroad37e Member

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    When I was in Iraq, Beretta and Glock could not keep up with the demand. At a police academy in Jordan, we were issuing Glock 19s to all Iraqi Police cadets. I guess S&W is getting a piece of the pie. I'm wondering where the Springfield XD is at? I never saw one in Iraq or Jordan.
     
  3. KBintheSLC

    KBintheSLC Member

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    Perhaps it may be time to give the 'ol M&P line a serious look. They look like a great alternative to the Glocks we have loved and gotten bored with.
     
  4. Dday

    Dday Member

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    Oops - might this signal a price increase on M&P as demand/supply dynamics are impacted by this?
     
  5. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    I believe someone complained about the US buying Glocks for the Iraqis. If we're spending the money buy American. can't disagree.
     
  6. tinroad37e

    tinroad37e Member

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    Our Glock shipments kept getting smaller and smaller until we could no longer issue Glocks to all the cadets. During my last month, we started receiving small shipments of Rugers to compensate for the shortages. I had a M&P .45 and I regret selling it. Another one is next on my list.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2008
  7. CZF

    CZF Member

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    Despite being (probably) loaded with 9mm ball ammo. I think they will be well armed.
     
  8. Odd1

    Odd1 Member

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    In 2004 the Iraqi national guard (which later was renamed the Iarqi army) was being issued Walhter P99. Must be nice when you are not paying the bill.

    I know this becasue I was working as a LNO with the Iraqi Police (before all these transition teams became the new word).

    An Iraqi NG Colonel was visiting an Iraqi Police General while I was there. they were relatives, the Army colonel came by to show off his new Walhter.

    Being a gun guy I was also admiring it. The colonel asked me if I wanted to keep it, true to the culture, when you admire something, they are quick to make a present of it.

    Of course the US Army would frown on this little present, I had to turn him down.

    If you ask me the whole idea of shipping pistols over there is dumb. They have the machinary, let them churn out some HP knock off, it would add to thier industrial base and create jobs as oppossed to shipping in all these new pistols.
     
  9. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    S&W will be glad they have this contract when Obama reactivates the HUD agreement with them, and their US sales plummet.
     
  10. flyboy1788

    flyboy1788 Member

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    Smith and wesson isnt even owned by the same company that made the clinton deal. The ownership has been changed since 2001. Use your internet search function and do research before spewing out nonsensical statements next time.;)
     
  11. MarcusWendt

    MarcusWendt Member

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    I think the M&P is seriously underrated and deserves more attention from the Military and LE.

    Glad to see S&W is getting some business here.
     
  12. jon_in_wv

    jon_in_wv Member

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    I have two M&Ps and they are fantastic guns. I've even shared them on the range with a few Glock owners and they were are very impressed. All of them shot better with my M&Ps also.
     
  13. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    I believe that when a corporation is sold, the legal arrangements from prior contracts and agreement generally carry forward. The agreement was between two legal entities, S&W and the federal government. It doesn't necessarily matter who owns the corporation. The agreement is not between the owners or stockholders and the government, its between the corporation and the government. The corporation still exists, and is still therefore bound by the agreement.

    Now, there certainly is some question whether or not the contract is enforceable, and if Obama chooses to enforce it, S&W may well be able to convince a court that the contract is no longer valid because both sides have failed to follow the contract for many years now. But it is a legally gray area, and even the CEO of S&W acknowledges this. If it ends up in court, it could cost S&W millions of dollars to defend, even if they win.

    You can read more about it here, but this is in no way as clear as you seem to want to make it:

    http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/sw-hud+3.html

    My statements may be nonsensical to you, but apparently some lawyers out there are not so sure.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2008
  14. flyboy1788

    flyboy1788 Member

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    Lone Gunman, I can see where you are coming from but that doesnt seem to be the case in this particular instance. A couple examples of this is that a particular stipulation of the clinton deal was that smith and wesson make integral locks on all there guns as well as to not make a gun with a capacity of more than ten rounds. Lastly there was a restriction on the amount of guns smith would produce. As you may have noticed, m&p9s are available with 17 round mags if Im not mistaken, and Smith offers the M&P15 rifle that comes standard with 30 round mags and does not have an ILS. Granted, I did not read any official press releases stating the new owners of Smith and Wesson is not honoring the Clinton deal, but IMHO actions clearly speak louder than words, and since 2001 they have made some very large steps to get away from the retarded clinton agreement that was made in 2000. And yes a lawsuit can be filed I suppose, but I cant imagine it would get too much of a foothold. Just my opinion. It is worth what you payed for it :D
     
  15. Deepskyy

    Deepskyy Member

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    Being the proud owner of an M&P 40 and now an M&P 15, I can say... dont blame ya!
    I love mine. Easily have putten over 1000 rounds through the .40 in under a year (with meticulous care between range visits!) and I come back smiling every time!
     
  16. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    I think all that has really happend with the agreement is that S&W has breached it, and the federal government has yet to call them on it. Maybe the delay will nullify the contract. I think that will need to be decided in court. The govt has unlimited resources for pursuing this in court, S&W does not. If the choice S&W has to make is either spend millions of dollars in court, or complying with the agreement, they will have some tough choices to make, and are screwed either way.
     
  17. flyboy1788

    flyboy1788 Member

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    Good point, but either way, I feel WAAAYYYYY better now that smith is not owned by that british company Tomkins or whatever the heck it is called. As for now, the Smith and Wesson brass seem to have them pointed in the right direction, and as gun enthusiasts, we can only hope they stay that way.
     
  18. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    I am not so sure I would say they are on the right track.
    They have cheapened up the manufacturing process for their firearms while continuing to increase the overall costs to the consumer.

    I personally don't consider this to be on the right track.
     
  19. flyboy1788

    flyboy1788 Member

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    please do elaborate. A source would be nice.
     
  20. rbernie
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    rbernie Member

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    I would imagine that's true on the wheelgun side. S&W has moved their 'traditional' wheelguns into the brave new world of locks, MIM, construction with adhesives, and so forth.

    On the semi-auto side, the M&P sells for less than the 3rd gen pistols and seems to be adequate in terms of quality.
     
  21. Thin Black Line

    Thin Black Line Member

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    Brand new S&W still in the original box, unfired, for sale in market in Baghdad
    in 5...4...3...2...1...
     
  22. medic_guns

    medic_guns Member

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    corps and contracts

    Someone mentioned contracts surviving when corporations change hands. That actually depends upon the structure of the deal. Another corporation can come along and do a deal whereby all of the assets are picked up in an asset deal. Or, a reorg can be done and stock from the buyer can be traded for the assets, not the stock. There are several ways to execute the deal. If a straight stock purchase is made, then all potential suits and the like will survive.
     
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