S&W M&P's new single stack?

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A thumb safety.

That's disappointing.

Why does Ruger and S&W feel it's necessary to require a thumb safety on a striker-fired auto with a firing pin safety and heavy trigger weight?

:banghead:
 
Because their marketing studies indicate a lot of potential buyers want that feature.

The clamor for the thumb safety option in the standard M&P line caught them by surprise. After all, they'd only put it in the M&P 45 because it was a specified feature in the suspected military pistol program. The commercial demand for incorporating it in the 9/.40/357 models was such that they finally modified the frames and sear housing blocks to start shifting the "standard" parts over to those suitable for use with the thumb safety installation.

Fortunately, it's not the same huge "paddle levers" as is used in the larger M&P's.

FWIW, the feedback I've heard from the factory is that the trigger is nice (in comparison to the original design M&P trigger). It ought to be, since their engineers have been working on revising the M&P trigger/sear housing for the last couple of years. ;)
 
Shield

Ordered the 9mm today, and may have it by Monday. S&W has been stock piling until today and will begin shipping. Supposed to have 7 or 8K in the warehouse.
 
Do you own a XD 3"? Or have handled one?

It doesn't exactly have an overall advantage in size & weight to the new Shield (the XD 3" retains the thick and chunky profile), although it does have a magazine capacity advantage. Maybe the single stack XD will be better?

No broseph, I'm not talking about XD SUB COMPACTS, I'm talking about the XD-s...this:

http://xdspistol.com/specs.php

Let me make it easy for ya:

XD-s
Height w/ mag: 4.4"
Frame width: .90"
Maximum width: 1" (and only for 2 cm at slide stop)
Front sight: Fiber Optic
Weight: 21.5 oz
Caliber: .45 ACP
Capacity: 5+1

S&W Shield
Height w/ mag: 4.6"
Frame Width: .95"
Maximum Width: .98 (majority of the gun, not just slide stop)
Front sight: White Dot
Weight: 19 oz
Caliber: .40 S&W
Capacity: 6+1

So I can get .45 ACP in a shorter (height) and functionally thinner pistol and all I give up is 1 round and 2.5 oz? Yeah, I'll take the .45.
 
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Thanks, but I've already got a subcompact .45 (CS45) with 6+1 capacity. ;)

You meant .90", not .09", right? ;)

I'm talking about the 9/.40 version of the smallest XD. If & when the Shield is finalized in a .45 version, then the XDs 45 would be a similar comparison.

While I've always liked the .45 ACP cartridge (long before .40 existed and back when I didn't really think of the 9mm as a "real" carry cartridge :neener: ), over the years I've come to appreciate the virtues of the smaller 9/.40 pistols and their cartridges (especially with newer ammo).

Also, I received some further info on the Shield line. The release today is for the regular commercial/sporting goods model. The LE version won't be available and announced for another month or so. I didn't get the details on the difference, but at a guess I'd expect the LE version to probably have night sights and an extra magazine (and a LE/Mil price break).
 
You meant .90", not .09", right?

Yeah, I screwed up on the decimal points. It's fixed now. Thanks for the catch.

While I've always liked the .45 ACP cartridge (long before .40 existed and back when I didn't really think of the 9mm as a "real" carry cartridge ), over the years I've come to appreciate the virtues of the smaller 9/.40 pistols and their cartridges (especially with newer ammo).

I like the 9mm rounds, look at my pistols. A lot of dead MFs from 9mm bullets, no argument here.

I'm talking about the 9/.40 version of the smallest XD. If & when the Shield is finalized in a .45 version, then the XDs 45 would be a similar comparison.

This is where you lost me. It doesn't really matter where "you" want to shift the comparison, the XD-s gives you a larger caliber in a functionally smaller gun than the Shield from a manufacturer with an excellent track record for building reliable pistols.

Also, the XD-s is right at the limit of pocket carry (in terms of height/thickness) and the Shield is beyond that limit for the vast majority of us. Also, Springfield is measuring from the bottom of that mag butt plate to the TOP of the rear sight. I'll want to see a video with caliper measurement to see of that's how S&W measured their gun, because I doubt it.
 
Thanks, but I've already got a subcompact .45 (CS45) with 6+1 capacity.

That's cool, I don't know what a CS45 is but I can dig. The closest thing to the XD-s that I've seen is Kahr PM-45...and measurement wise the XD-s blows the Kahr out of the water:

XD-s
Height w/ mag: 4.4"
Frame width: .90"
Maximum width: 1" (and only for 2 cm at slide stop)
Front sight: Fiber Optic
Weight: 21.5 oz
Caliber: .45 ACP
Capacity: 5+1

PM-45
Height w/ mag: 4.85" (top of sights to mag base pad)
Slide/Frame width: 1.01"
Maximum width: 1.165 (@ slide stop)
Front sight: White Dot
Weight: 17. oz
Caliber: .45 ACP
Capacity: 5+1

Source: http://www.gunblast.com/Kahr-PM45.htm
 
I've certainly had to go back and make enough corrections of my own when my fingers were flying faster than my thoughts. ;)

As far as comparisons, I was only trying keep comparisons to similar caliber platforms, since the 9/.40 is the hottest growing market outside of .380 ACP. The .45 is still a slower market.

But hey, I'm a long time .45 owner & shooter, myself. Unless they actually come out with a Shield variation chambered in .45 at some point (dunno), I personally tend to think the M&P is at its best in the M&P 45. ;) (Much like I tend to think the Glock and Walther's are optimal when chambered in 9mm.)

"Pocket (holster)" carry is pretty variable, too. Different folks draw their own lines.

While I have some jackets & coats which work pretty well for pocket carry of my G26's, G27, SW999c & CS9, I'd not be surprised to find that more folks find those too large for their practical use. Then again, I know a couple of guys that pocket holster carry their G26's in slacks & shorts. Different strokes.

I prefer not to use .380 anymore, so a 5-shot J-frame is as small as I'll go for that role (pants/shorts), and the J's work rather well in the role for me.

Now, once the LE version of the M&P Shield is released in another month or so, it'll be interesting to see if they've finishing testing on a .45 version, and what the dimensions will be for the larger caliber.

If they eliminate the replaceable grip inserts for a hypothetical .45 model (as they did in the 9/40 Shield, to help cut thickness), they might be able to further shave some thickness off a .45 frame. Be nice to see a slimmer slide, too.

Glad you like the XDs 45. It's not a platform for which I have much interest, myself.
 
Different strokes for different folks. I'm sure the Shield will be a great gun, function wise. S&W doesn't build junk...and I'd take a Shield sight unseen over a most anything but a Glock or a Springer.
 
Because their marketing studies indicate a lot of potential buyers want that feature.

I was at a Gander during a sale and the salesman was showing compact autos to a couple of guys. They wanted the M&P but they said they had to have a manual safety. The clerk got on his radio to ask if they made the M&P with a safety. I told him they did but you don't often find them in Virginia and suggested they look at the Ruger SR40c instead. They ended up buying the Ruger.

I've been thinking of buying a Khar CM9. I for one hope Hickok does a CM9/PM9 comparison with the Shield. He does the best comparo videos I've seen
 
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Because their marketing studies indicate a lot of potential buyers want that feature.

Probably the same group of potential buyers scared to load a round in the chamber or carry a cocked and locked 1911.

Doesn't mean it's a good idea.

At least make it an option for those who want their gun to work when they need it to.

Ruger is worse in this regard. They mandate an internal lock, magazine disconnect, loaded chamber indicator, and thumb safety in addition to a heavy trigger pull and firing pin safety. Effectively six safety features that will all fail when some idiot acts like an idiot.

Keep your finger off the trigger until you've identified your target and ready to fire. That's safety.
 
I guess I'm naive but I don't understand the fuss about a thumb safety. I like my thumb safety. I don't have to use it, but I do. I like the added peace of mind of one more layer between me and a ND. I've practiced with and without, and can be ready to fire just as quick when using it...I just have to practice THE EXACT SAME WAY EVERY TIME. If I'm missing something, please educate me.
 
^ Because a safety is simply NOT NECESSARY on DAO and striker-fired guns. Period. Why would I want something there that's not necessary. Why would I want to complicate training by adding a safety?
 
^ If you find one, let us know. The gun was just announced today. Smith has a 7 to 8 thousand "shipping to dealers" as we speak, but I don't know of anyone who's bought one out in the wild...yet.
 
^wellegy, Cokeman, looks like ya answered your own question. My guess is that these will settle in at around a $400 street price, +/- depending on your locale.
 
I've seen Beretta Nanos with an MRSP of $475 going for $389. The Shield might go for less than that since it's MRSP is $449.
 
Probably the same group of potential buyers scared to load a round in the chamber or carry a cocked and locked 1911.

Doesn't mean it's a good idea.

At least make it an option for those who want their gun to work when they need it to.

Ruger is worse in this regard. They mandate an internal lock, magazine disconnect, loaded chamber indicator, and thumb safety in addition to a heavy trigger pull and firing pin safety. Effectively six safety features that will all fail when some idiot acts like an idiot.

Keep your finger off the trigger until you've identified your target and ready to fire. That's safety.


Well thats awfully presumptuous on your part. I carry my BHP cocked and locked and when I had my 1911 I also carried cocked and locked. Millions of other do as well and quiet a few of us want it on the M&P line as well.

Besides, you you keep your finger off the trigger... a thumb safety isnt technically needed on any gun.


^ Because a safety is simply NOT NECESSARY on DAO and striker-fired guns. Period. Why would I want something there that's not necessary. Why would I want to complicate training by adding a safety?

Again... back to the BHP and 1911.

Both of those had a short trigger pull of ~ the same trigger pull when bought new. Millions of BHP and 1911 owners think its a good idea and some great gun designers think its a good idea t


Blade guards arent needed on power tools either... but millions of people WANT them.

Its a circular arguement. Just because some peopel cant control all of their fingers doesnt mean eveyone cant either.


Why cant people just accept that instead trying to force their beliefs on everyone else?


Looks like a neat gun.. I'll have to at least 1t.
 
Danez71, I'll answer what was specifically directed at me.

Again... back to the BHP and 1911.

Both of those had a short trigger pull of ~ the same trigger pull when bought new. Millions of BHP and 1911 owners think its a good idea and some great gun designers think its a good idea t

Apparently you're not too good at the readin'...because I said that DAO and striker-fired guns don't need safeties...1911s and BHPs are single action guns that were designed to be operated with a safety. Nothing wrong with that. I know a lot of people who shoot and like those pistols. Wonderful. I have a CZ-75b that I can carry cocked and locked. I get it. But Glocks, XDs, and yes...M&Ps don't need safeties. They weren't designed with safeties, and to the extent that they have safeties (the M&P and a few mostly discontinued XD models)...it is because political pressures and certain state requirements made it financially wise to include them. Obviously there is a market, great. Smith should produce two versions of the Shield like the do with the other M&Ps, one with a safety and one without.

Just because some peopel cant control all of their fingers doesnt mean eveyone cant either.

Um, what? Is that a double or triple negative? No make-o the senso, bro.

Why cant people just accept that instead trying to force their beliefs on everyone else?

Ha ha ha ha ha...Pot, let me introduce you to kettle.
 
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