S&W M25-5: Strength?

[Nightcrawler]

I've heard that Cor-Bon's hunting ammunition is safe in a Model 25-5 revolver. I emailed Cor-Bon and the reply I got stated that they in fact used an M25 in the testing and development of their hunting loads.

FYI, their three .45 Colt Hunting Loads are as follows:

265gr BCHP @ 1350fps
300gr JSP @ 1300fps
335gr HC @ 1050fps

Now, that's pretty stout. However, it's not about muzzle velocity, or bullet weight, but pressure. Buffalo Bore once emailed me and told me that they're working on a .45 Colt load that'll push a 250 grain bullet to about 1000 feet per second, but new powders they're working on should keep the pressure down to levels that are safe even in an Uberti SAA clone.

I'm inclined to believe the folks at Cor-Bon; I believe one of their guys posts here, their company has a very good reputation. I'm certainly not going to imply, nor do I mean to, that they're being deceptive or are giving me bad advice.

It's just, those loads seem a BIT stout for what I've heard is safe in a 25-5. I've heard conflicting information on just what is safe, though. This should can no doubt be attributed to the length of time over which the Model 25 was produced. Some models were produced in the 40s and 50s, some models were produced in the 90s (though I believe the entired model 25/.45 Colt line was discontinued in 1991 or so).

And Cor-Bon isn't going to fix my revolver if I set the cylinder to back-spinnin', either, so I'm just trying to cover my bases.

I know that at some point, Smith & Wesson strengthened their N-Frames considerably, but I doubt a blued M25-5 was produced late enough to be included in this. I'm unsure exactly when my revolver was made.

So what do you think? Obviously, at more than twenty dollars a box, I won't be putting much of this ammo through my revolver, but I don't want to put any of it if it's going to damage it. I really like my 25-5 and don't want to damage it. I've already had to have it fixed once, though I don't think that that was anything I did, as I have no idea how many rounds were through it before I bought it.

Keep in mind one thing. There's a considerably power difference between Cor-Bon's +P .45 Colt loads and those of, say, Buffalo Bore. Cor-Bon's load pushes a 265 grain bullet to 1350 feet per second. Buffalo Bore's load with that bullet leaves the barrel a full hundred feet per second faster, so I'm guessing the Cor-Bon pressure's are lower. (Plus, Buffalo Bore makes no bones about it: Ruger/TC/Freedom Arms ONLY.)

So what do you think? To date, the "hottest" loads I've put through the 25-5 are loads from Cor-Bon and Georgia Arms that pushed a 200 grain bullet to 1100 feet per second.

Any experienced reloaders/25-5 owners have any advice?

EDIT: Cor-Bon just emailed me back. Said that the 25-5 is strong enough for these loads, but they don't recommend a steady diet of such. That sounds more sensible to me. Espeically since that at $24.99 a box, I couldn't, you know, AFFORD a steady diet of these.

Eventually I suppose I'm going to have to break down and get a Redhawk. Just can't afford it right now.

(I suppose it'd help if I knew how old my 25-5 was, exactly. I'm sitting in History class as I type this, and won't be able to look at my revolver until I go home this weekend.)

 

[Nightcrawler]

I'm very enamored with this beast for some reason. Very cool looking in an ugly, functional sort of way. And, being a .454, it'd be plenty strong enough for any .45 Colt load I'd care to stuff into it...

A regular Redhawk would do, too, but frankly the 5.5" Redhawks look more ungainly than my 6" N-frames. I think I'd rather have the Redhawk shortened to about 4.5" inches. That and some new grips and I think it'd look pretty decent!

(Why, oh why, doesn't Ruger put GP100/SRH style grips on their Redhawks??)

See, here's a 4.5" Redhawk from Clements Custom Guns. The new grips and the shorter barrel make it look pretty good, for a Ruger. (Still not as pretty as my N-frames, but I could live with it.)

Hmm...odd...lately I've been getting hankerings for custom revolvers...I've got to get out of this habit. I'm a college student, I can't afford "custom"!!

 

[Nightcrawler]

Of course, you can just go nuts with customizing Rugers if you really want...

I don't want to try it. YOU try it! LOL

 

[J Miller]

The S&W 25-5 revolver is an N frame like the Mdl 29's, BUT they are not heat treated like the magnums.

I've had one since 1983, it's had just over 6000 rounds of standard to about 22,000psi loads and it has loostened up to the point that I believe it needs work. It is still safe and functional, but..............

They have the strength to handle higher pressures, but not the brute strong parts to be durable in the long term. With loads like this they develop end shake pretty quick.
The hands and bolts are small and will take a bad beating when using the loads CorBon and BB make.

I've heard about the standard pressure 300+gr load that BB is supposed to put out, but no body I've heard from or who has written an article has tested any yet.

I keep my 25-5 to loads that push 255-270 gr bullets at or near 950fps. That's enough, as far as I am concerned.
For anything hotter, or heavier, I get out my Ruger.

 

[Nightcrawler]

One is given to wonder why Smith chambers such potent catridges in revolvers that can't handle it. Buffalo Bore ammo will set a model 29's cylinder backspinning too, I've heard.

*shrug* I've been told that the model 29 is a very nice .44 Special. I'm sure many of you have put thousands of rounds of magnum stuff through your model 29. Does it shake it loose?

Should I just resign my 25-5 to cowboy loads and be done with it? Seems like an awful waste, such a big revolver, firing such big cartridges, delivering less power than your typical .45ACP...

Need to handload. I've heard that 270 grains at 1000 feet per second is doable and safe in a 25-5, and I'd like to give such a load a try.

 

[prisoner6]

It does seem that a lot of peoples "knowledge" of the strengths of Smith and Ruger revolvers comes from "what they've heard." I've seen Rugers that locked up on heavy recoiling, and I've seen Rugers that would chamber and fire anything. I've seen K frame Smiths shot out and I've seen them going strong after decades. If one chooses to use ammunition that is at higher pressure levels than what a firearm is designed for, I would think its common sense to expect accelerated wear. Some of the Cor Bon and I gather most of the Buffalo Boar ammo is pushing the limits of what the cartridges are capable of. Therefore, accelerated wear occurs. Would I shoot extended amounts of hotly loaded .45 out of a Smith 25? Nope, I would get something designed for those loads and enjoy the sweet shooting standard loads in the Smith. But thats just me. I would be more likely to out of a Ruger, but again, thats just me. I have no personal need to shoot these stronger loads. Doesn't mean I won't though. It's all a matter of compromises.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Well, that's the problem with .45 Colt. There ARE no factory "standard loads". Everything is watered down because the ammo companies are afraid somebody'll put a hot-load in Grandpa's old Single Action Army or an Uberti break-top and lose some fingers.

Look at, for example, Winchester Silvertips. A 225 grain bullet at 800 feet per second. .45ACP beats that. The original black powder loads for .45 Colt were FAR more potent than that, but makers are hesitant to duplicate and/or supercede those ballistics, as doing so with modern smokeless powders requires higher pressures.

And, of course, the cowboy shooters don't want a lot of recoil for their competitions, so you get 255 grain and 200 grain loads at a whopping 750 feet per second, with the bullet practically falling out of the barrel.

True enough, a Redhawk would better suit what I'd like to do with .45 Colt. Cor-Bon's email basically answered my own question in any case.

So, now I need to get a Redhawk and then I need to get it shortened. Nice. Anybody want to lend me a thousand bucks?

 

[prisoner6]

I guess it just boils down to what you want to do with it. From your other post, it appears you have both this 25 and a 57? A good combo, you could use the 57 for the boomers and just have fun with the 25. But in reality, we all have our own designs on these things. If you want to go big with the .45 you may want to look into handloading not just to get what you want, but because of what it will cost you to get what you want. I know around here both of those critters would be expensive to feed. I was kind of where you were, had a 24-3 that shot well, but ammo costs for the .44 Special were killing me. So I traded for a 625 in .45 ACP. Miss the one, but love the other.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Very little of what I want in guns has to do with NEED. I haven't had a day yet where I've needed a 7.62x51mm battle rifle, for instance.

My eclectic tastes get the better of me many times. Rather have a Custom Ruger Redhawk of all things than a 4" S&W .44 Magnum mountain gun. Lots of mountain guns, not so many custom Redhawks.

Mostly, though, in this case, I wanted to know whether or not I'd damage my 25-5 if I ever did get the hankering to run a box or two of Cor-Bon hunting stuff through it.

What eats at me though is the thought that A 625/.45ACP revolver would be able to provide me with more power than my .45 Colt one. Factory .45ACP loads prettymuch stomp most factory .45 Colt, especially .45ACP+P and .45 Super, all of which are safe in a new 625. (Heck, they convert 'em to .460 Rowland, even.)

 

[Nightcrawler]

It's a matter of dates of production. The new 625s were produced after S&W started making its N-Frames "enhanced" for strength and endurance with powerful loads. Hence, late-model 625s can be and are converted to .460 Rowland.

My 25-5, however, predates the enhancement and lacks the strength of later models.

 

[Wil Terry]

Of the three CORBON 45Colt +P MAGNUM loads

The 45 Colt -335gr LFN was SPECIFICALLY loaded for the Smith&Wesson M25-5 45 Colt sixguns. The pressure limits of this load is a tiny bit above the 45ACP+P pressures.

 

[djl4570]

The weakness of the M-25-5 is the thickness of the cylinder at the bottom of the notch. I am told that the steel is about .025" thick. The good news is that this is way back where the thickest part of the brass case is.

Given the large numbers of m25's in use Corbon would have to test their loads in that gun or face the eventual lawsuits. I doubt that a steady diet of these would be good for the gun.

It is interesting to know because it means the H4227 and IMR4227 loading data in the old manuals isn't as suspect as the newer manuals make it out to be.

The stiffest handload I've ever shot in any of my M25's is 21.5g H4227 behind a Hornady 250gXTP in a M25-7. Very nice groups at 10 yards shooting double action Davis/Weaver. I later chronographed this load just under 1100fps. This loading data was derived from Speer #8 and other sources.

Another load that performed very well is 14.0g HS7 behind an Oregon Trail 255g Keith style SWC which chronoed between 1020 and 1050fps.
This loading data was derived from Lyman #47

BTW: What is up with this site? I type out this reply and can't preview it because the site says I'm not logged on. DUH!!!! I had to be logged on to initiate the reply.

 

[Nightcrawler]

A 255 grain Keith bullet at 1000-1050 feet per second is the .45 Colt load I wish some factory would make. It'd be, in my opinion, a near perfect "general purpose" .45 Colt load; more power than the cowboy stuff, but it won't beat your gun up like the hunting loads will.

Hey, Cor-Bon, how about loading that 265 grain bullet to about 1050 feet per second? It'll have even lower pressure than the 335 grain bullet at the same velocity and will still be good for game up to the size of a deer or so, or for hogs.

Please?

 

[Mannlicher]

I have fired a lot of stuff from my 25-5, but the load that works best for me, is the Speer 225 JHP over a fair amount of Blue Dot, for about 1250 fps. Accurate, no pressure signs, and fairly low recoil. I do admit to going up a notch or so, when loading for my Rugers.

For factory stuff, I like the CorBon 200 grain, or the WW 225 grain SilverTip.

 

[444]

Have you read through these articles ?

http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh/

 

[James Bondrock]

I've heard that Cor-Bon's hunting ammunition is safe in a Model 25-5 revolver.

I am sure it will not blow the gun up, but there is a substantial risk of accelerated wear (timing problems, frame stretching, cylinder stop notch battering, etc.) Use such loads very sparingly.