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S&W MP 45 reviews:

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by S&WMP45, Jun 29, 2009.

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  1. S&WMP45

    S&WMP45 member

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    i have a mp45 compact (obviously lol) and i actually just sent it back to smith today. the sear pin is coming out, but it's still never jammed and shoots quite accurately for a polymer 45.

    the only issue i have is that the trigger pull is quite a bit heavier than my mp 40 compact. i mentioned this in the letter i sent with the gun, hopefully smith will lighten the trigger free of charge.

    anyone have some reviews of any m&p45's, lets hear them:)
     
  2. Oldtrader3

    Oldtrader3 Member

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    LA County Sherriff's Department memo: (read it for yourself)

    SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT BROADCAST ANNOUNCEMENT

    TRAINING BUREAU WEAPONS TRAINING

    TO: ALL SWORN PERSONNEL

    SUBJECT: OFFICER SAFETY ALERT - SMITH & WESSON M&P PISTOLS


    RECENT DEVELOPMENTS HAVE FORCED A DEPARTMENTAL RE-EVALUATION OF THE SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P SEMI-AUTOMATIC PISTOL AS AN AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL HANDGUN FOR SWORN PERSONNEL.

    EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P FULL SIZE PISTOL IS NO LONGER AN AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL ON-DUTY PISTOL.

    EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P COMPACT PISTOL IS NO LONGER AN AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL OFF-DUTY PISTOL.

    SINCE FIRST APPROVAL AS AN OPTIONAL PISTOL ON DECEMBER 10, 2008, THE FULL-SIZED AND/OR COMPACT VERSIONS OF THE 9MM SMITH & WESSON M&P PISTOL HAVE BEEN DEPLOYED BY 49 SWORN PERSONNEL ON AND OFF DUTY. ONE OF THESE PISTOLS WAS DELIVERED NEW WITH AN IMPROPERLY MACHINED BARREL THAT WOULD NOT EJECT SPENT CARTRIDGE CASINGS. ANOTHER OF THESE PISTOLS EXPERIENCED A BARREL FAILURE IN MID-APRIL OF THIS YEAR. AFTER FIRING LESS THAN 10,000 ROUNDS OF TRAINING AMMUNITION. THIS PISTOL BARREL BROKE INTO TWO PIECES JUST AHEAD OF THE FIRING CHAMBER.

    ADDITIONALLY, A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF DEPUTY ACADEMY CLASS #377 RECRUITS WITH ISSUED NEW SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P FULL-SIZE PISTOLS HAVE EXPERIENCED PHASE-2 PISTOL MALFUNCTIONS, CAUSED BY SPENT CASINGS FAILING TO EXTRACT FROM BARREL CHAMBERS, DURING THE PAST TWO WEEKS OF TRAINING. CLASS #377 RECRUITS WILL BE ISSUED BERETTA 92FS PISTOLS ON WEDNESDAY APRIL 29, 2009, AND THEIR M&P PISTOLS REMOVED FROM SERVICE.

    PERSONNEL SAFETY AND RELIABLE EQUIPMENT REMAIN OUR PRIMARY CONCERNS.


    DIRECT ANY QUESTIONS TO
    LIEUTENANT XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX@LASD.ORG
    SERGEANT XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX@LASD.ORG AT THE B.C. RANGE.


    LEROY D. BACA, SHERIFF KBL/SNDG
     
  3. jaysouth

    jaysouth Member

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    Oldtrader

    did YOU read the memo the supposedly came from the LASD?

    It refers only to 9mm and does not restrict the use of M&P 40s or 45s.

    My M&P 45c has shot over 1,000 of my reloads without bobble or mishap. It is a fine weapon and has replaced a 1911 as a daily carry piece. It appears to have less recoil that a full size steel 1911 and is as accurate as my Kimber, Springfield or STI carry guns.
    Plus, my back sure appreciates the lighter load.

    When you get it back from S&W, I am sure that the problem will be fixed. Try to send a taurus back for routine repairs. You will pay shipping and it will take a year IF they will accept it.
     
  4. S&WMP45

    S&WMP45 member

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    hi jaysouth-you're right smith has great customer serv.

    i just got back my mp40 compact (locked open w rounds still in the mag). they fixed it and gave me a free mag. paid shipping too. this mp 40 never had a ftf or fte either :)

    does your mp45c have a pretty heavy trigger pull too?
     
  5. Oldtrader3

    Oldtrader3 Member

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    Jaysouth: of course I read it. The M&P 9mm is essentially the same gun as the M&P .45. Is the .45 cal safe? Have any had enough rounds through them by enough people to eliminate degrees of freedom problems with populations and insure high enough confidence levels that they are a totally separate population without the same defects? Has S&W certified this to be statistically valid with their testing? It does not sound as though S&W has process reliabiltity and statistical Quality controls and process capability high enough to assure product integrity and customer quality.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2009
  6. S&WMP45

    S&WMP45 member

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    the thoughts on firearms in California by the decision makers are just stupid. only gang member can get high capacity mags and jhp's in cali.
     
  7. Oldtrader3

    Oldtrader3 Member

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    In addition to the M&P issues with the LA County Sherriff's Department, S&W has also had a recall this year for frames on their 22A pistol that were not properly inspected (had no final Inspectors mark) and for PPK series pistols that discharged wihout pulling the trigger when the slide is released during loading. This evidentury trail makes me believe the S&W does not have a working Quality Plan that is being adhered to by Quality Engineering during final assembly, inspection and testing of their product prior to sending pistols out to their dealers for sale.

    Two out of three of these defects could result in grievous personal injury to anyone unfortunate enough to own one of the affected pistols.
     
  8. S&WMP45

    S&WMP45 member

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    yeah i'm sending in my 2nd mp for repairs. both my mp's only had minor issues, but smith could step up the QA a bit! thankfully they have the bomb cust serv
     
  9. jaysouth

    jaysouth Member

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    Hey oldtrader,

    Both LASD and LAPD have approved M&Ps in .40 and .45 for both duty and off duty carry.

    Wonder why the .40s and .45s were not flagged and prohibited from future carry? Not trying to start a flame war, but you seem to have it in for S&W.
     
  10. jaysouth

    jaysouth Member

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    S&WMP45 said
    "does your mp45c have a pretty heavy trigger pull too? "

    With just a thousand rounds through it, all low pressure wadcutter reloads, mine improves every day. Right now it feels like a Glock with a 3.5# disconnector. Great trigger.

    A couple of days ago, I shot a friend's full size 45. The trigger seemed heavy to me but was consistent and could be mastered after 30-40 rounds.
     
  11. c919

    c919 Member

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    I have a 45c and I LOVE it. I will admit the trigger takes some getting used to, but now I really like it.

    Iv never had a single problem and Im sure if I ever do S&W will take great care of me. Their CS was a big selling point for me when I was considering my new polymer .45 purchase.

    I cant think of a single complaint against my m&p45c.
     
  12. FullEffect1911

    FullEffect1911 Member

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    My M&P45c has 547 rounds though it. No failures of anykind using target lead reloads, XTP reloads, hydrashocks, and HSTs.

    The trigger vastly improved with some snap cap dryfire practice and I have come to shoot this pistol well after a 200 round or so get to know you period.
     
  13. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

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    The trigger on the standard M&P 45 is heavier than that on the standard 9/.40/.357SIG models, and the accepted tolerance range (according to my armorer class and at least my early manual) is +/- 2 lbs in relation to the 'standard weight'.

    My M&P 45 came with a trigger on the heavier end of the tolerance range. Doesn't that just figure? :neener:

    Anyway, while it took me a couple of hundred rounds to become familiar with the trigger stroke on it when it was new it didn't prevent me from immediately realizing a very surprising and satisfying level of practical accuracy with my then-new M&P 45.

    After a couple of range sessions and upwards of 500-odd rounds had been fired I realized the trigger was starting to feel noticeably smoother. I didn't bother to recheck the trigger weight with my digital gauge because the actual number wouldn't matter to me as long as the inherent accuracy was so good.

    Now, a little more than a year later, more than 2,600+ rounds have been fired through my M&P 45. Reliability has been consistently ... even monotonously ... reliable. The ammunition used hasn't been terribly varied, granted. While approx 100-odd rounds has been FMJ (left-over in my range bag, so to speak), the rest has been a combination of only 3 different major brand, duty-type JHP loads.

    I actually enjoy taking my M&P 45 to the range for a normal range day/training session more than taking one of my several 1911's. :uhoh: Go figure that one out.

    Recently, I finally had to leave the M&P 45 at home and take one of my 1911's, a stainless Colt Government XSE, to the range for a couple of sessions and a few hundred rounds.

    I feel there are a number of inherent refinements and nice features of the M&P pistols series which I like when compared to the other polymer frame pistols I own and use, being Glocks and SW99's. I've addressed my thoughts in other threads from time to time and won't repeat it all again, but some of the features I like about the M&P pistol series are:

    Several design features of the M&P are interesting.

    Enhanced frame strength (w/steel sub-chassis)
    Frame rails are easily replaced if damaged (without frame replacement)
    Heavy slide dust cover to resist damage if dropped
    Beavertail grip frame to reduce potential for slide bite
    Grip inserts include palm swells as well as back strap dimension differences
    Ambidextrous slide stop levers
    Reversible magazine catch button
    Large, robust extractor (and roll pin used in the .45 model)
    Stainless steel recoil guide rod assembly
    Beveled barrel hood
    Through-hardened stainless steel barrel & slide (no zone tempering)
    Trigger return spring used in the striker assembly

    There have been some ongoing revisions and changes based upon owner/user feedback, too.

    Slide stop lever spring tension increased.
    Striker design revised a couple of times.
    Magazine body finish changed.
    Follower design (at least in the .40 S&W models)

    A number of the spare parts I've ordered while building a spare parts supply have been identified as revisions. (Not uncommon with S&W, though, as they're always revising parts among their other handgun model lines, as well. ;) )

    All things considered, I think the M&P pistol series is a welcome addition to the current polymer-frame pistol market.

    Being a certified LE armorer for Glock, SW99/P99 and the M&P, I have a bit of familiarity with those designs. I also own a pair of each design in different calibers. (In my humble opinion, some folks who live in polymer houses ought to be careful when it comes to tossing rocks around about occasional issues arising with different makes/models.)

    While I plan to keep the Glock and 99 series pistols I already own, I doubt I'll be buying more Glocks or 99 series pistols, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find myself picking up at least another M&P.

    I'm thinking about a M&P 45c to add to my retirement CCW collection. The standard size M&P 45 I own is a just a bit larger than I'd prefer for normal CCW usage now that I'm retired and don't envision having to invoke peace officer status and take an enforcement action. The M&P 45c might be small enough that I'd be willing to use it in my normal rotation of CCW weapons nowadays.

    I just like the way the M&P 45 has been done, all things considered. I already have other design 9mm pistols which serve my needs well, so I don't have any immediate plans to pick up a M&P 9 ... and of the 5 pistols I own chambered in .40 S&W, the M&P 40c is a dandy little pistol but it just doesn't stand out as being something that would 'replace' the rest of them for the most part.

    Kind of how I tend to like the Glock and 99 series designs when chambered in 9mm (although I own and have used models chambered in .40 S&W in both designs, as well), I happen to like the M&P when chambered in .45 ACP.

    Kind of nice to have so many choices in the pistol design field, isn't it?

    Of course, I still choose to carry one or another of my J-frames more than my various 9mm, .40 S&W or .45 ACP pistols. I figure I just came back around to revolvers after the better part of almost 3 decades in the LE field and not quite 20 years as a firearms instructor. ;)

    I'll always have an enjoyment and great respect for traditional double action and single action metal-framed pistols, too, for that matter.
     
  14. phantomak47

    phantomak47 Member

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    Heres something interesting about the SW line of M&Ps that most people do not know, I am currently in a major police academy and we were given various fliers from different dealers that sell us our duty weapons. One dealer harped on the fact that he sells ONLY law enforcement audited pistols, which are pistols that are checked over by SW at the factory. This raised a red flag for me.

    Glock , Sig, XD do not have such a thing as "law enforcement audited pistols".

    There are major quality control issues with ALL SW products right now.

    Also the m&p had the most problems in terms of malfunctions during our firearms training, one cadet who is a an officer from another agency told me that he was actually dumping his mp and going back to Glock because he and others experianced a lot of problems.

    For the record I am not a SW hater, I just think that they are producing some less than stellar products.h
     
  15. phantomak47

    phantomak47 Member

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  16. jaysouth

    jaysouth Member

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    Fastbolt,

    Thanks for sharing your vast knowledge with us. I will buy your first book when it comes out.
     
  17. Oldtrader3

    Oldtrader3 Member

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    Jaysouth, I own a couple of S&W wheel guns, have owned several more over the years. I have nothing but praise for S&W products that I have owned and shot from ..22 LR to .44 Mag. My issue was with S&WMP45, dissing Kimber, having only handled one pistol briefly at the range with an opinion that they were junk based on one friend who had a polymer frame crack. I just thought that maybe a little comparative reality might remind him that stuff happens with 1911 pistols and engineered complexity, whether made by Kimber, Colt, S&W or whomever.......

    The Kimber topic posts on this board degenerated into a flame war that resulted in the topic being closed, which I thought unfortunate and unfair to Kimber. I made my point and have moved on!
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2009
  18. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

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    The Atlanta PD issue was not a recall. (Btw, here's the link to the actual Recall programs which S&W lists on their public website, BTW: http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...catalogId=10001&content=12002&sectionId=10506 )

    The APD situation involved a small number of the M&P 40's in-service at APD which exhibited some 'walking' pins in the actual trigger assembly (meaning not the trigger pin in the frame). I was told it was not noticed because of any functioning problems experienced or reported. It was noticed by S&W factory armorers at the range. Rather than wonder about whether it would occur to more of the pistols at any time in the future, they decided to simply replace the trigger bars in all of the pistols. FWIW, the plastic triggers are vendor parts and I was told this was the first time this issue had been reported with M&P pistols currently in-service.

    The APD M&P 40's were announced back at the end of Jan '08, along with a few other contracts.

    Excerpt from S&W Press Release (located at: http://ir.smith-wesson.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=90977&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1102606&highlight= )
    SPRINGFIELD, Mass., Jan. 31 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (Nasdaq: SWHC), parent company of Smith & Wesson Corp., the legendary 156-year old company in the global business of safety, security, protection and sport, announced today that it has recently received several orders for its Military & Police (M&P) polymer pistols. Most recently, Smith & Wesson received an order from the Colorado Springs Police Department to equip the city's officers with 500 M&P40 polymer pistols. Other sizeable agencies that have recently converted to the M&P pistol series include the Atlanta Police Department, Charlotte Police Department, and Syracuse Police Department. A total of 1,900 M&P40 pistols have been shipped to the Atlanta Police Department; 1,650 M&P40 pistols have been shipped to the Charlotte Police Department; and 500 .45 ACP M&P pistols have been shipped to the Syracuse Police Department.

    Officials at each of the four agencies indicated that the M&P pistol was selected after an extensive testing and evaluation process. During the testing, which in some cases exceeded eight months in duration, the M&P pistol was noted for its enhanced ergonomics, ambidextrous controls and proven safety features. Officials added that the polymer pistol's interchangeable grip sizes, accuracy, and ability to be disassembled without pressing the trigger are features that were all highly valued by their officers. The M&P pistol will replace early model Smith & Wesson and non-Smith & Wesson firearms currently used by the four agencies.

    On January 28, the Company announced that it had secured an order from the Colorado State Police, citing that orders from state agencies have the potential to help drive future orders from smaller, municipal agencies within the same state. Today's announcement references the Colorado Springs Police Department, a municipal agency which is distinct from and in addition to the Colorado State Police order announced earlier.


    During the armorer class we were told that S&W is test-firing each M&P pistol with 15 rounds (loading 5 rds in each of 3 different test magazines). When I asked if this was just being done for LE contract orders I was told that no, it was being done with each M&P as it was produced, whether for commercial or LE/Gov orders. I've been told that the only difference between the commercial runs and the LE runs are night sights often being added to LE slides and an extra magazine being included in LE order guns (3 instead of 2).

    Now, if you want to talk about issues which are occurring with any number of different pistols currently in-service with LE agencies from a number of the major makers, it's a conversation that could last for a long time. ;)

    I've had the opportunity to get together and talk about such things with LE armorers at many of the armorer classes I've attended over the years. It's not like there aren't firearms made by other reputable major manufacturers which aren't having their share of issues arise, you know. ;)
     
  19. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

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    Uh, thanks, but remember that I'm not even close to being anybody's idea of an 'expert', nor am I a factory technician, engineer or licensed gunsmith. I'm just a guy who's been lucky enough to have attended a fair number of armorer classes over the years and was fortunate to have been able to apprentice myself, so to speak, to a very experienced LE armorer when I was a newly minted armorer. I've also been fortunate in being able to occasionally call and discuss things with folks at a few of the companies when I had diagnostic and repair questions.

    I've been toying with trying to organize and condense several hundred pages of material I've written over the last several years into something I might try to publish someday, but it involves the spiritual and mental aspects of my involvement in the martial arts, not firearms.

    Granted, after spending just shy of 20 years working as a LE firearms instructor I've collected some small amount of my observations, thoughts and experiences in written material, but there's definitely no shortage of folks writing for that subject nowadays. ;) I have no immediate plans to try and do anything with it.

    I'm still busy compiling lists of everything I don't know. :uhoh:
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2009
  20. S&WMP45

    S&WMP45 member

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    kimber does have questionable quality control, sorry if that fact hurts your feelings, Oldtrader3 (?)

    if someone said that S&W's were crap, what do i care? everyone's entitled to their opinion-this is america, right?

    anyway, about 400 police departments already issue the m&p, i think that speaks for itself. while absolutely zero departments issue an xd, even though it's been on the market longer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2009
  21. 125grSJHP

    125grSJHP Member

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    Hi all,
    Newbie to THR here.

    I have as my duty weapon and IDPA gun a M&P 40 no safety or decocker. I LOVED it until today. When I got home and unloaded it and sent the hammer (striker) home on an empty chamber for the night...no click! The striker was broken. Good thing I didn't need it today because I don't know how long it had been like that since this morning. The gun has had use, about 5000 rds and is "cocked" all day. S&W is sending me a new striker assembly no questions asked, but doesn't seemed concerned about it. Don't misunderstand, I'm not running down S&W, it's the whole reason I choose my M&P. But I have lost confidence in what I hope I will never have to use to save my life or my colleagues life. Any of you ever heard of this or had i happen to yours?
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2009
  22. Oldtrader3

    Oldtrader3 Member

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    Nothing hurt my feelings. I was upset about an entire post that degenerated into name calling and was locked down by the moderators. S&P, you have no experience with Kimbers any more than I do with the M&P. I have no "feelings" toward either pistol except keep it above-board and make comparisons fair. Also it would help if you have an ax to grind based on some real world experience. That's it, all's said.

    125grSJHP, I hope that Smith treats your issue as serious and that you never are faced with a failure like this in a real-life gunfight.
     
  23. skoro

    skoro Member

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    anyone have some reviews of any m&p45's, lets hear them

    OK...

    I had a full size M&P45 that I owned for over a year. Accurate, reliable, very good ergonomics. Smith did their homework on the M&P series and I think they have a winner there.

    That said, I traded it last month on a Colt Government 1911. I just have a thing for 1911s, is all. Not a thing wrong with that M&P, except it wasn't a 1911. It's now in the hands of someone who will appreciate it for what it is.
     
  24. INMY01TA

    INMY01TA Member

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    The frame sag issue kept me away from the M&P 45.
     
  25. schmeky

    schmeky Member

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    I've owned 2 M&P's, a .45 and a 9L. I didn't keep the 9L long. I shot the 45 quite a bit, around 1,000 rounds. Like most of my guns, I do my own gunsmithing. Really good trigger improvements are difficult to acheive on the M&P series. I managed a good pull on the 45, but eventually had to send the 9L to someone else. S&W will not sell a sear to a private owner.

    The 45 was accurate but would not reliably feed the H&G 200 LSWC. The M&P uses a squared chamber throat and is not condusive to using any bullet with a square shoulder partition. Wish I would have known this before I bought it.

    There are not a lot of aftermarket items for the M&P's, so you need to be pretty satisfied with it in its as delivered form. In the end, I sold both M&P's and I've decided to stick with my Glock for a polymer pistol.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2009
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