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S&W riding high

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Owen, Jun 19, 2006.

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  1. Owen

    Owen Moderator Emeritus

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    From Today NSSF Bullet Points:

     
  2. Srigs

    Srigs Member

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    It is good to see an US gun company doing very well and moving in the right direction. :)
     
  3. carpettbaggerr

    carpettbaggerr Member

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    Imagine how well they'd be doing without those stupid locks........
     
  4. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    I won't buy anything from them as long as they put the stupid locks on the guns.
     
  5. raz-0

    raz-0 Member

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    Oddly enough. With the M&P I do not believe you CAN get one with an internal lock yet. Maybe if you are doing a departmental order or something. But in the general retail supply, they are too busy filling orders for ones without the lock.
     
  6. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    I wish S&W would make a "limited edition" series of guns without the lock, kind of like the Heritage edition guns they made around 2000. They could tout these as more of a collectible gun than a self defense gun, and therefore leave off the lock in the name of historical correctness.
     
  7. JesseJames

    JesseJames Member

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  8. Birukun

    Birukun Member

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    Are you talking about the internal lock?

    Or the magazine disconnect?

    Either way, the internal lock and the magazine disconnect will no doubt be easy to change, as soon as replacement parts are available for the models that do not have them.

    I pick mine up after the 1st, I will report back if it comes with the internal lock. I had not noticed it when I originally looked at it, I saw it shown as 'optional' on the S&W website - thanks foir bringing it to our attention. Since I live in the People Republic, no doubt it will include both 'safety' features.

    Since I will have it apart to disable the magazine disconnect, seems like one more thing to do while I am in there!

    Bill in SD
     
  9. roo_ster

    roo_ster Member

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    My SW1911 does not have "the lock."

    This goes to show just how small firearms companies are.
     
  10. BozemanMT

    BozemanMT Member

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    Nice, i bought 200 shares at about 4.50
    it's up over $8
    nice:D
     
  11. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    I have come to the conclusion that what began as a legitimate concern about the S&W internal lock has now come close to insanity. Every time S&W is mentioned, in any context, the lunatic fringe begins raving and ranting and frothing at the mouth about "the lock". Get over it, folks. If you don't want the lock, don't buy S&W or Taurus or Ruger or any of the other guns with a lock.

    You can also avoid cars with ignition locks, which might fail, or house doors with locks which might leave you trapped inside or locked out.

    I have several S&W and Ruger guns without locks, and some with. The lock is simply of no concern to me.

    And please don't rant about all those failures where thousands of people have been killed when their S&W revolvers locked up. I have tried to trace a legitimate complaint or any verifiable such incident and came up with zilch. Nada. Zip. Nothing but more raving and screaming and ranting and frothing. If you know of such an incident, with a real person who can be contacted or a real posting that can be verified, say so; otherwise shut up, already.

    Get real, get a life. If all you ever have to worry about in life is a lock on a gun you claim you will never own anyway, you will be darned lucky.

    Jim
     
  12. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Search for posts by someone named Erich who occassionally posts here. He has actually had one lock up while shooting. Talk to him if you want a first hand account. He has posted his experience here.

    As for the lock itself, it probably mechanically fine, though. Anything man made can and eventually will screw up. I have enough of an engineering background to know that adding unnecessary parts to a design can cause malfunctions you otherwise would not have to even consider.

    My main concern is the idea of the lock, and what it means for the company to continue to keep putting it on their guns. The lock comes from the Clinton era, a particularly dismal time for gun enthusiasts. The lock represents an unsavory collaboration between government and a private company to make guns "safer" in the name of public health and the common good. That kind of "nanny" mentality makes me, and most other people who dislike the locks, sick. I don't need the government, or any company, telling me I need a lock on my gun.

    My secondary concern is aesthetics. The hole uglies up one of the prettiest handgun designs out there, ie, the S&W DA revolver.
     
  13. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    If Erich or anyone else who HAS HAD a lock failure will contact me, or post here, I would appreciate it. But ONLY if YOU have had a failure; no rumors about some guy somewhere who might have....

    The problem is that reaction to what you call the "nanny" mentality. I agree to a point, but I think it has been carried to extremes in this case. The lock is there; it does not have to be used (I have never used one). But I do lock my guns in a safe, which I assume you would also reject as being "nannyism". (In case anyone who reads this is planning to come to my home with evil intent, I didn't say I lock ALL my guns in a safe.)

    I see no more reason to complain about S&W locks than about the door and ignition locks on my car. Even less, since I have to use the car ignition lock unless I go to a lot of trouble to remove it. I don't have to use the S&W lock.

    Jim
     
  14. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    That's great for S&W but in the grand scheme of things that net income is chicken feed - literally. 8.7 million is about 1.8 days worth of net income for the last company I worked for.

    8.7 mill is small cap and S&W is a biggy compared to many firearms manufacturers. The firearms industry really is small which is why the anti's had a real chance of putting them out of business before congress passed the law to protect them.

    Still it's great to hear that their business and sales are growing. There are very successfull companies out there that'd kill for a 27.4% annual increase in revenue.

    Congrats to S&W, their management team, their workers and an economic and cultural environment that makes their success a reality.
     
  15. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    They don't make anything I'd buy, especially not in revolvers.

    I hate stainless steel, ugly obtrusive integral locks, and round butts on N frame revolvers.

    I've got a ton of S&W revolvers, not one of which is newer than 30 years old.

    In terms of product line, S&W is where Chevy was about 1975.
     
  16. TX1911fan

    TX1911fan Member

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    I agree with Jim. I suppose many of you who hate locks on guns would have no problem placing your firearm in the glove compartment of your car, which also has a lock. It's man made, so I guess, given the popular logic, could fail at the worst possible time and when you need to retrieve your gun, it just locks up and won't let you in. In my 40 years of life, I have never, ever had anything with a lock become locked on its own. Now, I've seen stuff that was locked, and then the lock became disabled, but that is different. I fail to see how this can be such a issue. Would I prefer S&W didn't put them on? Sure. However, I don't object to Dodge putting locks on my truck, or Ryland putting locks on my house, or DISH network putting locks on my satelite service. If I don't want to use them, I don't have to, but someone might want to.
     
  17. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Here is Erich's description of what happened with the lock:

    This was from a thread at THR.

    I will pm Erich and see if he will add anything.
     
  18. Erich

    Erich Member

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    Hello,

    I've been trying to avoid these lock threads as if they were zombie bear threads, but I wanted to answer my friend Lone Gunman's PM. Here's what happened to me (as I've announced all over the internet umpty million times - Jim, go to the extensive ILIF threads on the S&W Forum for the most detailed info that I've seen - tho several other folks have spoken up over time and have not posted on the ILIF threads).

    I oafishly knocked my 60-15 off a counter onto a hardwood floor. The "gun locked" flag got situated crossways in its channel and the gun totally locked up. I had to go dig the box out of the safe, find the keys, and then fully engage and then fully disengage the lock to get the gun back in working order.

    I traded the gun away and won't buy another with a lock (I have, however, bought several pre-lock S&Ws since then :) ) - I've never had an ignition lock on a car fail me when I needed it. ;) I don't really care what anyone else does - put five locks on the thing. Make a "Houdini Special" - I don't care. But I won't buy it.

    Personally, I believe that the Taurus lock design is superior to that of S&W, and I wish that S&W had simply licensed it instead of coming up with that unattractive Rube Goldberg-esque thing they put on their guns.

    Ha! I just noticed that Lone Gunman had quoted me from a previous thread already! I've retyped what happened to me in so many threads (surely dozens by now) that it's almost word-for-word worn a groove in my brain.
    :banghead:

    If anyone wants to email me on this, feel free, but I doubt I'll be back on this thread. :)
     
  19. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    I wish people would stop bitching about the locks...:scrutiny:
     
  20. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    As I have said before, I just wish S&W would re-issue the non-lock guns in addition to their lockable models, and let the consumer decide if he wants a lockable gun or not.

    Of course, I have an opinion which would sell more.
     
  21. Erich

    Erich Member

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    Deer Hunter, I only mentioned it because I was asked. And because someone's research somehow didn't turn it up.

    Have fun at college next year. :)
     
  22. orionengnr

    orionengnr Member

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    yup,

    I think that civil discourse can still exist. Maybe.

    Jim Keenan, I respect your contributions to the forum, your post count and your expertise.

    That said, I think that your post displays a somewhat closed mindset. The whole "get over it" attitude is defeatist and disingenuous.

    The fact that a problem exists with "The Lock" is a matter of degree and kind, (degree if you want to discuss it, and kind if you don't) and is well documented (check on smith-wessonforums.com for additional first person accounts).

    The fact that S&W has allowed itself to get goat-roped into this deal is regrettable. The fact that S&W continues to uphold it's side of a senseless, unilateral, unlawful "agreement" without any basis in fact, reason or law is deplorable...and to many of us, unforgiveable.

    The fact that there are some very vocal/aggressive "Lock Apologists" out there is the most disturbing part to me.

    There are many S&W owners who are:
    --loyal to the brand and its heritage, and
    --appalled and repulsed by what has transpired in the last six years
    to our favorite revolver brand.

    Much the same as I, as a lifelong Republican, am repulsed and appalled by what has happened to my Party.

    And no, I will not "get over it"...in either case.

    Civil (and factual) replies are welcomed.

    Note to self...better go on-line and find me an asbestos suit...ah, a better idea would have been to do that a while ago...
     
  23. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    Hi, Orionengnr,

    I went to the S&W Forum a number of times, looking for specific "it happened to me" threads. All I ever found was post after post of rants about what might/could/maybe happen. Erich's post has been the first that said that it did happen, and I am now looking at how. I honestly don't see how it could happen as he says, but I will take his word for it. If others have had similar experiences, I would like to hear from them also.

    Erich, if the incident happened as you say, I have two questions. First, why did you not return the gun to S&W so they could determine if there is a design defect. Second, why did you trade off an obviously defective gun? It seems to me that both actions were very irresponsible. You claim to worry about the locks because they may fail, yet you sold a gun you say HAD failed, knowing it could fail for someone else, perhaps with fatal consequences. That is like selling a car with defective brakes, hoping to get your money and not caring if someone else gets killed.

    I do know that after the unfortunate "agreement" with the Clinton administration, many gun owners simply went berserk. They told a lot of what I can only call "imaginitive" stories about S&W guns blowing up by the thousands, triggers and hammers breaking off, and, of course, locks failing.

    I surveyed every gun shop I could contact, asking about those occurrences. When I reported the lack of such happenings, I was accused of lying, being a shill for S&W, taking bribes, etc. I was told that there was a giant conspiracy between S&W and all the dealers in the country to suppress the bad information. One gentleman told me that the BATFE had threatened to revoke the license of any dealer who reported an S&W failure. One fine, upstanding anti-S&W type e-mailed me a death threat. It went on and on.

    Jim
     
  24. mec

    mec Member

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    "I honestly don't see how it could happen as he says, but I will take his word for it. If others have had similar experiences, I would like to hear from them also. .."

    Erich said it happened and it did. He does not have an agenda and is not an internet fussbudget. He explained in one thread that he was embarassed about having dropped the gun and causing it to lock up and chose not to return it to S&W because he felt that the flag came up because he had clumsily knocked the gun off a table. This might not have been within the expected parameters of 'normal use.'
     
  25. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    Hat's Off Too Smith & Wesson

    I for one, am very glad too see the Smith N' Wesson Company doing well.
    I have forgiven, and forgot all the wrongs that the previous owners did
    with the Klinton administration; and hope they are dead and buried. I still
    think S&W revolver's are the world's best.
     
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