S&W trigger job guys, WHAT'S THIS?!?

[20nickels]

So I bought a Model 386 and everything is great except the crappy trigger, but that can usually be fixed. So I get the stones out and pull the guts out and find this. It is a raised bump on the part that contacts the cylinder stop! It sure explains the craptastic trigger. This may make sense to somebody, but not me. Must....contain... rage...

 

[20nickels]

better pic...

 

[18DAI]

Looks like another "innovation" from S&W

 

[Confederate]

That is strange. Looks like something that was put in to reduce wear or something. I'd check with S&W before messing too much with it. If it's to repair a crummy case hardening job as a shim, it's better just polished.

Whatever it is, please get back to us on it.

 

[krs]

If triggers are made by MIM they're basically powdered steel and S&W has found it doesn't wear well so adds a hardened contact point?

A guess is all...

 

[JimPGov]

It was designed that way. It has less contact than the older style trigger. Thus it requires less fitting. Lightly polish the nub but don't remove it or it won't be long enough. Jp

 

[Old Fuff]

Well...

1. It isn't advisable to stone case hardened parts.

2. MIM parts don't lend themselves to polishing very much.

3. The surface in question pulls the cylinder stop down so that the ball will drop out of the notch in the cylinder. It has absolutely nothing to do with the trigger pull.

To check, remove the mainspring and rebound slide springs. Hand cycle the hammer and trigger while pressing on the back of the hammer and see if you feel anthing out of the ordinary.

 

[roker]

As much as they charge for a new S&W you would think they would be flawless. The trigger shoud be smooth as butter also!

 

[20nickels]

I found out that this is normal for MIM parts (1st time I've seen it!). Now that I know that it's not just a shim added afterthought by someone being sneaky at S&W to reach the cyl stop I'm going to leave it as is. Tks for the replies.

 

[krs]

I have a new Model 27-8, a Lew Horton issue revolver that does NOT have that 'feature'.

I was assuming that the trigger and hammer in this pistol are MIM made to look like case hardened steel even though I could not find the characteristic small circle - the sprue I guess - anywhere on either part (The revolver is currently completely disassembled).

With your new info can I be happy that my parts ARE actually made the old way?

It'd be a nice consolation for the presence of the internal lock parts.

 

[Deer Hunter]

None of my S&Ws have that either. they are all butter smooth too.

 

[20nickels]

Krs, You are not giving up anything with MIM parts. Most top competitive shooters guns have MIM parts and they shoot plenty.

 

[huntershooter]

Sir;
With respect; would you name two "top competitive shooters" running MIM parts?

 

[18DAI]

If MIM is so great, why does the S&W Performance Center only use forged parts..........and brags about it???

 

[batmann]

Get out the popcorn--LOL

 

[20nickels]

Huntershooter.
"Sir;
With respect; would you name two "top competitive shooters" running MIM parts?"
USPSA- Jerry Miculek (I could stop right here), Ricky Lopez, Cliff Walsh, Mike Carmony, etc. All the top competitors shoot a 5" 625. Moreover, you could toss the top five shooters guns in a bag, have them grab the 1st ones they lay their hands on and I'll bet the score wouldn't be much different.

 

[20nickels]

Thaddeus Jones
"If MIM is so great, why does the S&W Performance Center only use forged parts..........and brags about it???

For the record, I did not endorse MIM or forged as "better" than the other. Two of my guns (the ones that see the most use) that have MIM guts have forged triggers in them, hence my surprise at the little "nub" which started this thread. Not because I believe forged is better but because I like serrated triggers.

As far as the S&W Performance Center goes I was unaware that they were using forged parts and this is the 1st I've heard of it. This brings up an interesting question; If S&W PC guns cost more, and use forged parts then why are their trigger pulls not any better than their standard line revolvers?

Pass the popcorn Batmann.

 

[krs]

If MIM is so great, why does the S&W Performance Center only use forged parts..........and brags about it???

The new Lew Horton model 27-8 I now own came in a performance center aluminum locking case and it has an engraved S&W emblem located on the left side of the pistol that says "Performance Center" in it's outer ring. This is in addition to the more familiar company logo which is located on the sideplate, right side of pistol.

From these two bits I think I'm safe in thinking that it is a performance center gun although I did not buy the revolver with that expectation.

I have had this revolver completely apart in order to improve the trigger and to rectify a slight grinding sensation that had been transmitted to me during the working of the action. These things are completed and the pistol is now reassembled, improved.

From this activity I know these things:

While the trigger and hammer may be forged steel parts and not MIM castings, or not, the recoil slide, cylinder block, cylinder release knob (for temporary lack of correct nomenclature due, probably, to loss of memory on my part), safety lock flag, and cylinder bolt parts are decidedly MIM castings as evidenced by the telltale circular 'sprue' marking on one or another of those part's surfaces.

So.....I can say today that any claim by the performance center or anyone else that ONLY forged parts are used by that center is patently untrue, as in false, if in fact my revolver IS a product of the subject performance center.

 

[Old Fuff]

Any S&W Revolver that has the internal lock will also have an MIM hammer. You won't find the required recesses in the hammer that the lock needs to function in an older one. I see no reason the company would use older style lockwork in Performance Center guns, as it is their stated position that the MIM parts are superior to those it replaced.

Of course some of us choose to disagree...

 

[20nickels]

My thoughts exactly Fuffster. The only gun I know sporting a forged part with an IL is the 625JM which Jerry demanded have a chromed, serrated, and forged trigger.

 

[Old Fuff]

While on the subject of combat-games, a competitor has little choice. The favored revolver is chambered in either 10mm or .45 ACP. I don't believe that anyone but Smith & Wesson makes such a thing.

I am not about to carve up my pet Model 25 (no dash) to make it into something other then it is.

 

[20nickels]

It is a bit of a mystery to me why the 5" lugged barrel is prefered over the 6.5" longer sight radius. Something to do with the rules methinks. I guess that's why I am far from top five!
Mmm...Model 25, drool.

 

[S&Wfan]

Actually, unless one is shooting single action, slow-fire bullseye matches with iron sights, the longer barrel will simply slow you down in double action-type, run and gun action matches.

If the match requires one to draw from the holster and engage multiple targets against the clock, the shorter the barrel the greater the speed onto the first target. A long barrel in the same hand will get that same guy waxed by the clock.

A four inch barrel works GREAT in the gun games. My fastest times came with my 3 1/4" chopped barrel Model 25-2, though some places would object to using this "modified" gun against stock 4" ones I'd guess!

Using a Pact random buzzer timer, and with the thumbs touching the earmuffs in the "surrender position," my draw time to first shot (in the A-zone of a target 6' away) is usually around .8 of a second. My fastest times have been about .77th of a second. Not Jerry Miculek-fast, but pretty darn fast. This is also from a Bianchi Cyclone II belt holster with thumb strap (but the strap is unsnapped).

I can't even closely approach this speed with my 1911 . . . nor with a 5" barreled 625. Both are over a second.

Yep, for speed and handling characteristics in the "gun games," you don't want a 6" barrel!