S397 how your senator voted

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Sort of strange, don't you think? The gun Nazi didn't vote.
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Crazy as it sounds, Feinstein is BY FAR the more conservative of our two Senators.
 
To El T and other Hoosiers

is there any chance of getting Bayh beat???

We live in a conservative state and he gets re-elected by big margins every time
 
There's a whole pile of Dem's out there who aren't socialist extremists and gun grabbers.

If they can gain ground on the local level, (if Dean can slip the leash and be more than a figurehead he might be able to steer it that way) they might slowly manage to convince the aging and increasingly irrelevent national leadership to change their kneejerk, lockstep anti-gun idiocy. Show it isn't politically feasible.

Heck, with the unions breaking up the Dems are going to have to diversify their positions more anyway.
 
Even voted for the Kennedy amendment which banned the .30-30.
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Can you publicize that within the Michigan hunting organizations ? I would think that would get through to even the densest hunter.
 
Senator Kennedy wants take away your right to own a .30-30 deer rifle. A man out of touch with Americans.

Kennedy, not your Forefathers Oldsmobile.

tkennedy.jpg
 
My Senators (DeWhine & Voinovich...what a pair) Voinovich for S. 397, DeWhine against.

I am really surprised that Voinovich vote for, not suprised about DeWhine voting against. Whoever comes up agsint DeWhine in the next election cycle is just about guaranteed my vote. And both of them are "(R)"

Unless maybe California exports Boxer/Finestien to Ohio...then I REALLY gotta think about it.
 
There's a whole pile of Dem's out there who aren't socialist extremists and gun grabbers.
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But there is a pile (30+) of senior or very prominent Senators that are hard core liberal gun grabbers or simply against anything the GOP tries to do. If they don't represent the Dem party, then they should be replaced or discredited, shouldn't they?

This shouldn't be mentioned without noting a dozen or so House Democrats who are supporters of gun rights, some outstanding. See GOA ratings.
 
Ron Wyden (D, wuss-OR) Nay. That was expected. :barf:

Gordon Smith, (R[ino? Jury's still out]-OR) Not voting. Well, not expected, but not surprising either. :rolleyes:

Now maybe we can get Rep. Blumenauer (D-OR) to grow a spine and vote for this in the House. Not a chance, really, but one can hope.
 
redneck, boy, I hope we can get rid of Bayh! :fire: He tries the same gambit as his father, just a solid American in Indiana, but when he gets to D.C. he turns into a SuperEastCoastEloi ready to trade our freedoms for approval from the Washington Post and the leftist cocktail circuit.

Please write Bayh and express your displeasure (politely). As well, please write your newspapers and ask Senator Bayh to explain himself at the next "town meeting." What counts most of all is money. Give and give some more to his opponent!
 
I hope we can get rid of Bayh! He tries the same gambit as his father, just a solid American in Indiana, but when he gets to D.C. he turns into a SuperEastCoastEloi
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This is why "local boy" viewpoints are so important regarding politicians. I have to say that I saw Bayh on Fox News right after the last Presidential election, and from his demeanor there, believed him to be a thoughtful Democrat, in the same camp as Zell Miller. The more I read about him though, the more I see that is not the case.

Just goes to show acting lessons pay off in politics.... :barf:
 
My apoligies.

That is about I can say, my senators are Durbin and Obama, both Chicago Democrats. Disclaimer: down state Democrats in Illinois are not neccerialy connected with the Chicago gun grabbers. Durbin somehow stays under the radar, so to speak but is as bad as any Senator when it comes to being a gun hater. Obama is everyone in Illinois' "darling little goat-herder boy" that so far can do no wrong, he is just wonderful. Give him time and I predict he will be another Durbin. Our problem in Illinois is the Republican party is totaly disfunctional along with the Illinois State Rifle Association, who seem to be a "good old boys club" with rules making it impossible for anyone new to be elected to office.
 
Yup Herb Kohl showed up for a yea, but he voted that yea for masterlock, not the people of Wisconsin.

Feingold- no suprise here, he only votes in a way that is both politically safe and draws attention to himself.
 
Please correct me if I am wrong.

I heard on a talk radio show that part of this bill is gun locks on all guns. If a gun you own is stolen and does not have a gun lock on it, you will be charged with the crime commited with that gun.
 
You were informed absolutely, completely wrong.

The amendment only mandates a lock be provided at the point of sale between a licensed and unlicensed individual.

It doesn't say "shipped with the gun by the manufacturer or distributor".

It doesn't say "sold with the gun".

And it expressly, in plain language, states that it does NOT create any expectation of use nor any culpability for non-use.

The "Negative Nannys" are screaming that having the lock be provided with the gun sets the stage for future legislation assigning civil or criminality liability to one who doesn't use it.

Which would take separate legislation to be passed, since the stated intention of the amendment contradicts that interpretation and it would have to be changed prior to being used as precedent.

Which would take two pieces of legislation if I understand correctly. One to change the intentions stated in the amendment, one more to actually create the liability. That's two bills subject to vote by the House and Senate and veto by whoever is then Pres.

In any event, there's absolutely no liability assigned or implied at all. It is expressly opposite to the stated intention.

People need to learn to read before they run their sucks.
 
Crazy as it sounds, Feinstein is BY FAR the more conservative of our two Senators.
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I'm speechless. I really am. I know you're right, but I can't put into words my disappointment.
 
I knew Levin and Stabenow voted NAY before I even looked on the lists. The voters in Michigan really need to do something about those two.
 
I'm not surprised with the outcome of the vote. Both of Arizona's Sentors John McCain and John Kyle, who are not perceived by the NRA as 100% pro 2nd Amendment senators, voted to pass S.397.

I sure wish the folks in Mass. and New York would help Ted Kennedy and Charles Schumer retire.

Who was it that said 11 years ago, when they were debating on the semi-auto weapon bans and restrictions that eventually passed in August of 1994? I think it was Charles Schumer that said (and I'm paraphrasing here) "... they [shooters] need to start thinking about new hobbies like reading books..".
 
The "Negative Nannys" are screaming that having the lock be provided with the gun sets the stage for future legislation assigning civil or criminality liability to one who doesn't use it.

Which would take separate legislation to be passed, since the stated intention of the amendment contradicts that interpretation and it would have to be changed prior to being used as precedent.

Which would take two pieces of legislation if I understand correctly. One to change the intentions stated in the amendment, one more to actually create the liability. That's two bills subject to vote by the House and Senate and veto by whoever is then Pres.
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That's exactly the history of seat belts, later to become shoulder and lap belts and eventually air bags. Older cars had to be retrofitted with seat belts or they would not pass inspection in PA. In the only accident I ever had, I was left hanging upside down and unharmed, held by a retrofitted seat belt. I also survived a head first landing on a rock while the only kid on the block with a motorbike helmet. I recall this stuff pretty clearly.

The "trigger lock" bill is without any intelligent purpose if you don't project where they are headed with it. All it does is coordinate interstate commerce on behalf of the States. Don't expect implementation of penalties from the federal level. They will leave it to the States to explicitly infringe upon the RKBA.
 
Realgun,

True enough, it could go that way in the end (and in fact I don't disagree they are trying in some states even now), but THIS bill does nothing to forward it as it is written.

They are still going to have to pass the enabling legislation, state by state (my state still exempts "older" cars from retrofit) or on the Federal level. Using your example, seat belts were mandated to be added by the manufacturer, at the factory at first. Having them in the new car you bought wasn't an option at all.

This bill explicitly doesn't mandate anything from the point of manufacture or distribution. Only that some kind of security device (not even a "lock", a trigger block would fit the terms IIRC) be provided (at no required charge) when a non-licensee takes possession.

For the seat belt analogy to work, seat belt laws would have had to begin with the dealer (not manufacturer) being required to provide (not sell) seatbelts at the dealership for you to install if you wanted while expressly stating you neither had to install or use them nor fear any consequences if you didn't.

It's not nearly the same thing and is many more steps up the slippery slope than seat belts ever were. Up the ladder but not yet even at the top of the slide. :D
 
True enough, it could go that way in the end (and in fact I don't disagree they are trying in some states even now), but THIS bill does nothing to forward it as it is written.
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This bill helps enable it, serving the interstate commerce role of national solutions to individual State confrontations with gun manufacturers. It also uses BATF authority to impose requirements on gun dealers. The rest of the subsequent funny business is up to the States.
 
Sadly Bayh is darn near unbeatable. Marvin Scott made a good run at it but was unable to get the support he needed. Most of the attention went to the Sodrel/Hill and the Daniels/Kernnan races. It is pretty much assumed that he isn't going to be beat. We just have to wait him out.

I personally hate that attitude but I also see why people think that way.
 
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