SA action grip vs DA Action grip effect POI?

[Stormin.40]

I have been shooting my Uberti 1858 New Army with a 45 Colt conversion cylinder. I have used 250 gr Cowboy loads (Factory Loaded) as well as some 200 gr hand loads using Trail Boss. The gun groups great when I do my part, but the point of impact is about 1" left at just 7 yards with both loads. I tried loading some dummy rounds with live rounds to catch myself flinching but didn't notice a flinch. I haven't shot the gun a lot and feel that the issue isn't the gun but me the shooter. When I first shot the gun with the percussion cylinder and a round ball it shot low but centered, I was shooting one handed, the low POI was expected with a 140 gr RB and Uberti's high front sight.

I don't have the same issue with my semi auto pistols or DA revolvers, could the difference in grip angle effect the POI under recoil? I have been shooting 2 handed as my 1 handed shooting has a lot to be desired.

The good news is I like to practice and the front sight is dove tailed in so I can adjust the POA. I just want to make sure I fix any issue I am having before I make any changes.

 

[MaterDei]

The effects of recoil don't impact POI. By the time any recoil impacts are imparted on the point of aim the round is a gone pecan.

I would normally recommend doing what you have already done by hiding a dummy round among the live rounds and looking for a flinch. Have you examined the barrel closely?

 

[Stormin.40]

I haven't examined the barrel closely and am not a gunsmith nor do not play one on the internet.

The rifling looked good from what I can see and I don't recall seeing any damage to the crown of he barrel. Beyond that what should I be looking for?

 

[MaterDei]

I am not a gunsmith either. Frankly, if I were you I would do exactly what you have done.

Hopefully this reply will act as a bump and get a real expert to respond.

Good luck.

 

[Stormin.40]

I suspect I just need more time behind the trigger. Just wanted to check and see if there were any tips or common issues.

 

[J-Bar]

I am not an expert bullseye shooter but I know a few. They tell me that change in your grip will change the POI. The bullseye competitors I know take great care to grip the gun the same way for each shot. Most handguns will print differently if you shoot one handed vs. two handed. It changes the amount of muzzle flip which changes the POI. It's not hard to imagine some horizontal dispersion creeping in as well.

I also hope one of the recognized experts will post. As always, I could be wrong!

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

First question: Is this the only fixed sight handgun you own?

Second question: If the answer was yes, where are the adjustable rear sights on your other handguns adjusted? Are they set off to the right?

Third question: If the answer to both questions is yes, exactly what part of your finger are you using to pull the trigger?

P.S. I have the same gun, also with a 45 Colt conversion cylinder. It shoots pretty much dead nuts for windage. Of course my loads are Black Powder, but that should not make any difference.

 

[4v50 Gary]

If the grip changes the way you hold youir pistol, it can affect your ability to control the weaving that is interent with our human bodies and ability to manage recoil. While it is a modern DA revolver, I couldn't hit squat with a Ruger Security Six with its small factory grips. Once I put a rubber (two-piece made in America) Pachmayrs on it, it shot like a champ.

 

[Malamute]

The effects of recoil don't impact POI. By the time any recoil impacts are imparted on the point of aim the round is a gone pecan

Not exactly correct. As someone mentioned, its not unknown for a gun to hit a different POI when shooting one handed or two. When shooting longer distances, like 300 yards, I have to use a different hold one handed verses two. Its mainly elevation though.

If you look at your sights, on large, relatively slow moving calibers, particularly with longer barrels, the barrel will be pointing downwards to a noticeable degree compared to the line of sight. The barrel moves up into the line of sight when fired before the bullet come out of the barrel.

A gun also isn't necessarily perfectly sighted from the factory. Despite all being OK, it may shoot off to one side a bit. The OP is correct in wanting to see if its him or the gun, but you cant assume the gun will be perfectly centered.

 

[BCRider]

Stormin', if you're anything like I was with my first single action then you might be holding too high on the grip area. I found that my SAA clones tended to shoot to the left when I choked up high. Once I learned that I didn't need all three fingers on the stocks and that it's OK for my pinky to rest under the butt end the guns both shot just fine.

And yes, holding too high does push the POI off to the left.

Try adjusting your hold so that the web of your hand is at or lower than the middle of the bend in the upper area of the back strap. Let your pinky rest wherever this results in it sitting. It seems like the web of our hand is more critical for positioning than getting up high enough to make room for the pinky.

 

[Stormin.40]

Thanks everyone, I do have some things to work on and evaluate.

Driftwood, I do have a fixed sight snubnose that shoots POA, however, to your other point I also have a 357 revolver that I had at one time adjusted the rear sight to shift my POI right, meaning it was also shooting left. I have sense drifted that rear sight left again. Your point is a good one.

BCRider, I will play with my grip and see if it changes things, I suspect it is a number of factors that I can in time work out.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

The effects of recoil don't impact POI. By the time any recoil impacts are imparted on the point of aim the round is a gone pecan.

Completely incorrect. As has already been stated, particularly with a revolver, the muzzle starts flipping up before the bullet leaves the barrel. That's why revolver front sights are so tall. To point the bore below the point of aim. Recoil will start to flip the muzzle up before the bullet leaves the barrel.

I have conducted experiments with my revolvers using the same bullet but varying the powder charge. Invariably the heavier recoiling rounds print higher. It does not matter what the propellant is, Black Powder or Smokeless. More recoil with the same bullet raises the point of impact.