SA XD 45 vs. 1911 for HD

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by hairless_ape, Jan 16, 2009.

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  1. BT2Flip

    BT2Flip Member

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  2. JaxNovice

    JaxNovice member

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    As great as a .357 is for stopping power, I would vote against it for HD. Just for the simple fact that discharging .357 in a closed area will leave you deaf and blind for a little bit. I am not saying that a .45 is pleasant to shoot indoors, just that a .357 is so much worse.
     
  3. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Let me clarify my own thought process. We know that hairless ape could shoot either one, since they both fit and point well (same as they do for me).

    Let's consider a home defense scenario.

    When you grab the pistol from your nighstand or quick-access safe, point it and pull the trigger, what happens?

    The XD fires. The 1911 does nothing. If you think that the safety will always be set how you want it, or how you think it is, when the chips are down, you've never been bird or rabbit hunting. At best, you have to be thinking about something that distracts you from what's important. At worst, under attack by a knife-wielding BG, you will pull the trigger and find that the safety is on.

    You want to check to make sure a round is chambered, without taking your eyes away from a potential threat, and/or in the dark.

    With the XD you can. With the 1911 you can't.

    You want to insert the magazine, but you are 1/4" off because you're looking ahead, not at the butt of your gun.

    The XD magazine goes in. The 1911 magazine doesn't.

    You have fired 8 rounds. You pull the trigger.

    The XD fires. The 1911 requires another magazine -- which as noted above, is a good deal harder to insert under stress.

    These are not just my feelings. Compare the two guns, for real, not just having fun at the range.

    I like the 1911. It's a wonderful gun in so many ways. I drool over some of them at the shop, while spending zero time longing for polymer-framed modern pistols. I've started shooting bullseye matches, so I really appreciate finely-crafted, accurate guns that feel great in the hand and shoot really well.

    And the XD .45 is still my HD choice over the 1911.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2009
  4. riverdog

    riverdog Member

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    For reasons that ArmedBear mentioned, I went with a Glock over the 1911 (XD wasn't around when the decision was made). G-21 has more rounds in the magazine, a softer felt recoil, superb reliability and an integral light rail (for those inclined to identify their target at night).

    OTOH my 1911's have great triggers, but if you learn and use a short reset with teh Glock trigger, it's not too bad.
     
  5. hairless_ape

    hairless_ape Member

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    Thanks a lot ArmedBear. That was precisely the kind of analytical side-by-side no b/s comparison I was looking for. My brother is pushing me to try out a HK45, so I'll hold one of those and see how it feels. But the safety on the XD will probably draw me back unless the HK feels perfect.
     
  6. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    One more addendum.:)

    A home defense pistol is a bit of a special case.

    A 1911 can make a good CCW piece. It's a good deal skinnier, and the safety and chamber are much less of an issue. Since you handle the thing daily, you presumably check it daily, and if you ever have to use it, you will be alert and aware.

    My HD pistol is in a quick-access safe. I've shot a good deal lately, but I haven't so much as looked at THAT particular gun, in weeks. I can't remember for sure if there's a round in the chamber or not. I'm going to go check...

    If I ever have to get it out, it might be dark, 2:30 AM, and I won't be totally sure what to expect. The last thing I need is a precision gun with little controls to worry about. I need one that is as simple as possible, and that can be used fast and without fumbling.

    The long XD trigger pull that may not be ideal for match shooting may be just what the doctor ordered, if you have to hold someone at gunpoint while the cops come. "Oops, I shot him!" with a fine single-action trigger on a 1911 is not what you want... But neither is putting the safety on. If he does come at you, the XD will work great.

    The ambidextrous mag release isn't something I'd sweat over, but the XD has one. You can use either hand to release the mag, which could possibly matter at some point. With 13 rounds in the mag, it's less of an issue than it would be with 7 or 8, though, and the 1911 doesn't have that mag catch design.

    That's my approach, anyway.:)

    Good luck with your choice. They're all good guns.
     
  7. Boats

    Boats member

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    Let's consider a home defense scenario.

    When you grab the XD from your nightstand or quick-access safe, accidentally hit the rather easy to operate ambi mag catch and then point it and pull the trigger, what happens?

    The XD fires. Once. You've just dropped its magazine. I hope you have carpet or the full mag has probably just puked its rounds out after the baseplate flew off.

    The 1911A1 fires because it doesn't barf its magazines from accidental touches to either side of the weapon, it's magazine is much more positively locked in than is the XDs. Furthermore, you've trained yourself to sweep off the thumb safety as you present the weapon to the target because you like to practice with it. It has become second nature and yes, when cocked and locked, it will remain just like you left it.

    You want to check to make sure a round is chambered, without taking your eyes away from a potential threat, and/or in the dark.

    With the XD you can. With the 1911 you don't have to. If you cocked it, it's because you chambered a round or fired a round. If the slide is locked back, you can't feel the hammer, or ejection port, or any other slide reference point you want to pick. You don't need a swinging metal doohickey on the top of the chamber or another thingamajig sticking out of the back of the slide. Chamber checks are much more necessary on striker designs.

    You want to insert the magazine, but you are 1/4" off because you're looking ahead, not at the butt of your gun.

    The XD magazine goes in. The 1911 magazine does too, you've just choked it up near the feed lips to guide it and then slammed it home, it's all in the practice.

    You have fired 9 rounds. With the XD you keep firing, with the 1911A1 you reload and look at the bad guy bleed out from nine COM hits.:neener:

    These are not just my feelings. Compete with the two guns, for real, not just having fun at the range.

    I chucked the XD and kept the 1911A1s.:D
     
  8. j1979

    j1979 Member

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    I agree with Boats. If you are using a 1911 for a defensive piece, its always going to be cocked and locked, at least if you know how to use a 1911. No guessing if a rounds in the chamber, no guessing if the hammer is cocked, no trying to find the magwell. Simply take safety off and fire. This is the way the 1911 was meant to be used. In every scenerio stated in the past post could all be true with the XD as well. Is there a mag in the xd, round in the chamber, is it cocked??:uhoh:
     
  9. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    You've never shot one, have you?

    Neither have you, apparently.
     
  10. j1979

    j1979 Member

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    Actually I have. You just make it sound like with a 1911 you never know what condition it is in, and with an XD everything is taken care of for you because it has some doohickeys on it that tell you if its loaded. I know my 1911 is loaded because it is cocked, safety is on, and there is a mag in it. No thinking about anything
     
  11. 76shuvlinoff

    76shuvlinoff Member

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    scalpel vs straight razor, both effective in the right hands.
     
  12. jpatterson

    jpatterson Member

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    I really don't like the LOOKS of XD and I personally have a 1911 for HD, but I think an XD is more practical in that scenario. But as it's been said, both are as effective as the user is.
     
  13. tbtrout

    tbtrout Member

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    With respect to all of the scenerios and their thinkers if you do not train, not practice, but train with your HD gun it does not matter what features the gun has. If you can not change a mag w/o looking at the mag well to make sure it goes in you should have a revolver. If you can not manipulate the controls with your weakhand you should learn. Hell, you should learn how to change mags and chamber a round with only one hand. A home defense situation is not always hearing a noise and waiting to ambush the intruder, it cold be someone kicking in your front door and you running for your gun while sustaining and injury. Train like your life depends on it, one day it might.

    It sounds like you have your choices to pick from, shoot them and learn how to use the one you pick and muscle memory will take over if the situation arises. How you train with your gun will dictate how you use it if the time comes.

    And for the record a Sig P220 is my go nightstand gun

    Good luck.
     
  14. Valkman

    Valkman Member

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    I feel the same and with the $$$ limits you have I'd go with the XD45 all day long. I use 2 XD45's for HD plus a 1911 and I like the higher capacity but also the rail and have lights for both of them.
     
  15. Quoheleth

    Quoheleth Member

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    I'll cast a vote at the SA. I love my 1911 (also a Springfield, FWIW) but I keep a Smith M&P9 near my bed.

    Out of curiosity, hairless ape, have you checked out the M&P? I went that route vs. the Xd because of the changeable backstraps - I was able to make the gun fit me vs. the other way around. Price points are similar; I believe (don't quote me) Smith is doing a $50 rebate still.

    Q
     
  16. jad0110

    jad0110 Member

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    Ahhh, I see that my prior post wasn't too clear ... I do load my 686 with 38+P (158 grn LSWCHP), as I shoot them a bit better (quicker follow-ups, less flinching) than 357s.
     
  17. hairless_ape

    hairless_ape Member

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    I have not seen the S&W M&P in person yet. Though I just checked it out on their site. Looks interesting, I'll have to see if I can find one. The all SS slide and barrel is interesting.
     
  18. DocBoCook

    DocBoCook Member

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    Never shot the 1911, but honestly, if it's the Nightstand gun, I want a Lever action safety that I can trust. the XD safety is not my trusted "round in the chamber" gun ( I use a ruger P series for this)
     
  19. mfcmb

    mfcmb Member

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    I love my Springfield XD .45 ACP service model. It fits my hand, points well, shoots accurately, has very manageable recoil, has been completely reliable, is dead nuts simple to operate, I can tell it's exact condition in the dark by feeling it's loaded and cocked indicators, holds a lot of ammo, is easy to reload by touch, can mount a light and/or laser, was affordable, has been well reviewed, and has a good warranty. Those were all the things on my checklist of important features, and I got them all in the XD.

    I've shot a few 1911s, and had fun, but for self defense I don't want to have to fiddle with a safety, I want a higher capacity magazine, and don't feel I need a faster-action trigger.

    But then I've been handgunning for less than a year. Maybe when I'm an old hand I'll feel different. For now I'm very happy with my choice.

    good luck in making your choice.
     
  20. jlg

    jlg Member

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    My HD and CCW are the same gun...Kimber 1911.
    As stated previously by several others, wondering if it's loaded isn't an issue...it's always loaded, cocked and locked. Whether coming out of the safe next to my bed our out of my holster, my thumb naturally disengages the safety during the draw so I don't see that as an issue.
    I also own an XD45 and have had no problems with it, I just prefer the feel and the trigger of my 1911 over the XD. However, the 1911 did cost about twice as much.
    If your on a budget, go with the XD. Then buy a bunch of practice ammo and...well practice.
    This may be a bit over the top, but I practice (with the weapon unloaded) getting out of bed, retrieving my pistol and taking aim at the doorway in the dark - as quickly and quietly as possible. You'd be suprised at how much slower you are than the "trained assassin" we all picture ourselves as in our heads.
    One thing I've never thought of until now... I practice regularly drawing my pistol from a concealed holster and putting rounds on a target. But I've never taken my safe to the range to practice opening it, retrieving the pistol, and actually engaging a target...probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

    Dang, I talk too much...my vote for your scenario/budget - XD
     
  21. j1979

    j1979 Member

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    Yea, budget can make or break the quality of a 1911. I look at them like tattoos. Good ones are not cheap, cheap ones are not good.
     
  22. fxhunter

    fxhunter Member

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    1911 style

    Have you considered the Para Big Hawg? 14 rds 45 on a aluminum frame of 28oz. All the bells and whistle allready done also. Price $670 at Academy.
     
  23. Boats

    Boats member

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    Fired an XD much more than you have handled or fired an 1911 apparently. Don't let your lack of experience make you humorless though because the thought of you fumbling with a 1911 while becoming a slick pistolero with the XD creates quite the comedic juxtaposition.
     
  24. DanielW

    DanielW Member

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    Other than the mag capacity I don't see any advantages to the XD. If you are using the gun for home defense you should always know what state it's in. Mine would be chambered and cocked with the safety on. If you're using the argument that the XD is just point and shoot, you can leave the thumb safety off on the 1911 as well. As far as the loading argument, you can get a mag well that will make reloading very easy.
     
  25. magnumman44

    magnumman44 Member

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    Just to reiterate what several have said, if you are well-skilled in the use of the gun that you use for HD, either will be sufficient. I am new to the 1911, but I love it and will carry it come this spring/summer if I feel that I am familiar enough with its controls and use, but I will continue to use my XD for CCW in the colder months. My XD45Tactical hangs in its shoulder holster on the bedpost nightly for many of the reasons others have stated, just like my wife has her custom XD9Tactical on her side of the bed and in the living room when I am away. Get what is most comfortable for you,or get both!!
     
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