Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by hso, Nov 28, 2012.
Wow, it's impressive how safe modern ammunition is.
I am also a Firefighter and have been at three structures where ammo was cooking off. At one I estimate 3000 rounds of center fire went. Home owner had a big fire safe with about a dozen Thompson Contenders and they were OK even though the door was not fully closed.
It is interesting in that I have seen cases fail rupture but there was not enough force to eject the projectile from the case mouth! ! ! ! As others have pointed out this only happens on TV.
As Polar Express points out loaded weapons in a structure is what concerns me. CIP a buddy and me were at a cross roads store when a pumper from the department in that area went by running code. We ran out to our vehicle and radioed them to see what they had and they told us to "come on" so jumped in his truck and fell in behind them. My buddy had his turnouts in his truck but I did not so I stayed outside and fed line in for the interior attack.
I was in a burn building once and there was a mechanical industrial thermometer about four feet off the floor and I laid there and watched it max out at 800F at 4:00 and it kept going till it got around and hit the start pin at 8:00 which if accurate would have been about 1200F. I also had a Bullard Fire Dome Helmet Shied get hot enough to deform (ruined) and we were flat on the floor. Top of the helmet blistered.
To my surprise rifles and shotguns start appearing out of the smoke at the front door. There was about eight and every last one had a round in the chamber as I cleared them as I got them and went out and laid them on the ground with bolts/chambers open.
We did cook off tests at Aberdeen Proving Ground and we heated barrels to circa 400F and rounds would cook off in 8 to 10 seconds.
Based on this my center fire rifles are not stored with round in chamber as they are the most likely to get a round through a exterior wall where most handguns won't.
Smokeless propellant does not really concern me as much as propane cylinders and acetylene cylinders. We were at a structure was were approaching a back door when there was a explosion and a propane cylinder came by our heads. It was a camp stove size. Had it been a 20 lb it could have been much worse for us.
Black powder is a different ballgame. If I know there is black powder stored I have told my guys to not make entry.
There was a incident out west about forty years back where a guy had black powder stored in a Tread container made for long guns. On the outside there was a sign that said "Use no flame to open this container". There was an explosion and all that was found was a section of scalp with black curly hair and the back third of the structure was gone. It was not the owner's so it was surmised this subject broke in and thought guns were in the gun safe and proceeded to open it and got his reward.
good video, thanks for this
Funny. EVERY vet that spent time on a fire base can tell you stories how they screwed with the new guys by throwing live rounds into a fire. Also C4 does NOT EXPLODE in a fire. We broke open Claymore Mines to get it out. You break a piece about half the size of a little finger joint and light it with a match. It will boil water in 50-60 seconds and it has to burn itself out.
Putting a match to C4 is another fun way to scare the devil out of new guys. Jest keep blasting caps away. Board 18-20 year olds with unlimited FREE guns, ammo and explosives will always find ways to amuse themselves.
Yes indeed. I have seen many M-60 machine guns cook off rounds if the barrels were not swapped often enough, or on too long a string of fine without stoping.
Okay, so after spending 32 years on a Fire Dept in a major NY city, I can tell you that I've been in enough fires where stuff was going off. Bullets, spray paint cans, household cleaners, etc. What I will tell you, is that if it's hot enough in the room for that stuff to go off, I probably don't want to be in there!. I would estimate the average temperature while we were crawling around on the floor was anywhere from 200-400 degrees. By the time you got to ceiling level, you're looking at about 1000 degrees or more. (that's why you crawl on the floor in a fire. There's also usually about 2"-3" of air on the floor you can breathe) When you're working in those environments, there's so much other danger to worry about, a few pops here and there are the least of your worries. Like they say, unless that cartridge was chambered in a gun, we didn't worry about it that much. We'd just put the fire out like normal, and try to cool it down as fast as possible.
They did a really good job with this video. It defiantly will help show people that when you mix fire with ammo it's not like you see in the movies where projectiles are shooting all over the place.
What would happen to a rifle or shotgun with a loaded tubular magazine if it got hot enough to set off the ammo?
I would imagine the tube would split then they would go off with minimal velocity. Not enough material around the tube to contain the pressure. The first might cause some shrapnel to fly. After that just like in the video.
I've seen a loaded tube on a 30.30 Marlin that was in a house fire. It got hot enough to char the outside of the stock. The tube was a bit bulged from rounds cooking, but intact.
I didn't need to watch the video as I lived it first hand. I lost my home to a fire in 1996. I had SOME loaded ammo, let's just say "about" 5,000+ rounds of different calibers (rifle, pistol, shotgun). Everything was stored in GI metal ammo cans (8 or 9) and 95% exploded but less than 6 rounds escaped out of the cans. The boxes of primers popping woke us up. So if the members keep any amount of ammo on hand, please store it it GI ammo cans (.30 or .50 cal. cans). Just a word of advice from one who has been there and done that.
That was really educational. I hope that my local fire department has see this video.
How dangerous would a revolver be with a loaded but open cylinder?
Haven't tried it nor seen it tried, but I would expect it to be much more dangerous then an "uncontained" cartridge - a revolver cylinder is designed to hold cartridges as they're fired, so open or closed all the gas can only travel along two lines (front and back of the cylinder) rather than a globe. Now you won't get full pressure if the cylinder is open because the casing can fly out the back of the cylinder while the bullet goes out the front (there goes half your power). Also just as you get more velocity from a longer barrel with most revolver ammo you're going to loose a lot of power because you've now got almost no barrel. But I'd still expect quite a bit more penetration than from a cartridge being ignited in the open.
Would love to see penetration test results if anyone has any.
Edit to add: BTW the initial video is great!
Conservation of momentum would dictate that the casing would fly out in the opposite direction as the bullet with the same momentum.
Since the masses are so greatly different the bullet velocity would be proportionally small.
Haha right? Wooowwwsa
Thanks for sharing this, I was in the middle of solutioning ammo storage. I have it filling up 1/2 my safe, so in the event of a fire, no firefighters would get hurt. Now I am comfortable throwing it into a jobsite box in the closet.
My eyes can’t unwatch but sort of glad I did
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