Sabotage of War Materials, copper theft

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by lgsracer, Apr 20, 2008.

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  1. lgsracer

    lgsracer Member

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    I bet these two will go down hard.

    Salvage dealer helps detect copper thefts

    http://www.columbiatribune.com/2008/Apr/20080419News005.asp

    By T.J. GREANEY of the Tribune’s staff
    Published Saturday, April 19, 2008

    Dave Fusselman of Moberly has been in the scrap metal business for almost 30 years, but the copper pieces that came in by the bucketful this winter and spring left him scratching his head.

    "I just thought, ‘Why would anyone throw away millions of tiny pipe caps?’ " he said of his initial reaction to the odd lot.

    As it turned out, the pieces weren’t pipe caps but "bullet cups," and federal prosecutors are now charging two men with stealing more than 16,000 pounds of the material from an Army munitions plant in Independence, where they worked.

    The theft is deemed more serious because it occurred during wartime and carries a maximum penalty of 245 years in prison for one of the men.

    Authorities credit Fusselman, a younger brother to Randolph County Prosecutor Mike Fusselman, with blowing the whistle on the caper.

    "The mistake they made was trying to sell to the prosecutor’s brother," Dave Fusselman said of the suspects.

    "He’s the key to this whole thing," Odessa Police Chief Robert Kinder said of the salvage operator, according to the Kansas City Star. "It was a citizen making a report. You’ve got a person here going beyond the call."

    It all started Sept. 27, when a man later identified by investigators as Charles D. Osborn, 45, of Odessa went to Fusselman’s Salvage Co. with several 5-gallon buckets full of the shiny caps.

    Employees of Fusselman’s noted the odd, smooth shape of the items but didn’t think much more about it. They paid the man the standard copper salvage rate of $3.10 per pound.

    Osborn returned two more times in October, "testing the waters," Fusselman said. By the third trip, Fusselman and his staff were suspicious. They took down the vehicle’s description and license plate number. "These things weren’t dented up or damaged to where you’d say they were rejects," he said. "They didn’t look like they should be scrapped."

    Asked about the source of the copper, Osborn said there had been a railroad derailment and a friend had helped clean up the spilled material. That story only further set off warning lights for the scrap shop workers.

    But what happened next put that speculation into overdrive. On Nov. 5, Osborn’s alleged accomplice, Timothy D. Langevin, 36, of Independence pulled up with 2,540 pounds of the copper bullet cups in buckets filling a U-Haul trailer.

    For the next four months, Fusselman continued to buy scrap copper when it was proffered and scanned industry alerts to see whether anything similar was reported stolen. In March, he called the Moberly Police Department to report his suspicions, and police traced the license plate to an Odessa rental dealership.

    Prosecutors later accused Osborn and Langevin, who were employees of Lake City Army Ammunition Plant, of brazenly using a company forklift to remove from the factory skidloads of boxes containing bullet cups.

    The plant contracts with the Army to produce 7.62 mm ammunition for small-arms weapons.

    By March 28, Osborn’s last trip, the alleged thieves had traded in for salvage 16,528 pounds of copper valued at almost $80,000. The quantity of copper was sufficient to produce 1.5 million rounds of ammunition for the U.S. Army.

    Fusselman said the copper’s salvage value was about $45,000. The copper pieces were scratched as they were moved to and inside the salvage yard, rendering them unfit for ammunition. The Lake City plant did not seek return of its copper, which has been melted down.

    According to a federal grand jury indictment unsealed Tuesday, "the diversion of the bullet cups interfered with and obstructed the ability of the United States to prepare for and carry on war activities."

    Fusselman said he promises to keep his eyes open, but there is no law requiring dealers to ask for identification of people who come to them selling scrap metal.

    The skyrocketing price of copper - which has more than doubled in the past three years - has encouraged thieves to become more aggressive in stripping copper wiring or plumbing from empty houses and agricultural irrigation systems.

    "We watch for things that are unusual. We take reports from authorities over the phone, and we catch people every so often," he said. "But the fact is, if they take copper wiring out in the country and burn it" to remove insulation, "there isn’t going to be any way to identify it."
     

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  2. Sans Authoritas

    Sans Authoritas member

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    "During wartime?" Did I miss something? Did Congress declare war at some point while I was asleep?

    -Sans Authoritas
     
  3. Wes Janson

    Wes Janson Member

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    Shhh, not important.
     
  4. Dksimon

    Dksimon Member

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    That is just crazy. A kid in the town that I lived in broke into a plumbing supply store and stole a bunch of copper plumbing then turned around and sold it to the salvage company the next day. The manager said that he was going to go into his office and cut the kid a check but he called the cops instead. Needless to say the kid wasnt the brightest lightbulb in the box
     
  5. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    :scrutiny:Tell it to the soldiers we have in Iraq and Afghanistan, SA.
     
  6. XDKingslayer

    XDKingslayer member

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    While I understand what you're saying, there is a difference between what we are doing and a true declaration of war.

    Extremely heated debate developed in the United States beginning on or around September 11, 2001. Opponents of the uses of military force since began to argue, chiefly, that the Iraq War was unconstitutional, because it lacked a clear declaration of war, and was waged over the objection of a significantly sized demographic in the United States.

    Instead of formal war declarations, the United States Congress has begun issuing authorizations of force. Such authorizations have included the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution that greatly increased American participation in the Vietnam War, and the recent "Authorization of the Use of Military Force" (AUMF) resolution that started the War in Iraq. Some question the legality of these authorizations of force. Many who support declarations of war argue that they keep administrations honest by forcing them to lay out their case to the American people while, at the same time, honoring the constitutional role of the United States Congress.
     
  7. StopTheGrays

    StopTheGrays Member

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    Bullet Cup=Copper jacket that is molded around lead?
     
  8. Schleprok62

    Schleprok62 Member

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    Yeah, they'll be home for X-mas... sometime in their lives after next...
     
  9. learn2shoot

    learn2shoot member

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    honestly, in looking at those cups in the pictures, I do not think I would have identified them as a bullet component, and I am a reloader.

    Were they to be stretched at some point in the process?
     
  10. serrano

    serrano Member

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    My thoughts exactly.
     
  11. pdowg881

    pdowg881 Member

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    It looks like the "cups" are just that shape before they are formed into the jacket?
     
  12. TEDDY

    TEDDY Member

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    Copper Cups

    you are not much of experianced reloader then.they are first draw.next will be to draw out and last to trim.picturs on pg 14/15 in "bullets by the billion"
    Chrysler corp 1946:uhoh::rolleyes::D:D
     
  13. RedLion

    RedLion Member

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    Bullet Swaging.

    Basically its like squeezed clay in your hand takes the shape of your hand. The core is squished into the jacket forcing the jacket around the core and into a die.
     
  14. jaholder1971

    jaholder1971 Member

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    SCOTUS has already said that the resolution on Iraq that Congress passed is good enough. Get over it.


    I'm calling BS on the scrap dealer. There are 2 HUGE bullet cup making operations within 30 miles of him: LCAAP and Sierra Bullets. Every scrap dealer in the area knows what the bullet cups are.
     
  15. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    let's see....

    congress declares war by a simple majority.....

    congress authorizes "use of force" by a simple majority.....

    call it what you like....it's a military action authorized by the United States Congress.
     
  16. ConstitutionCowboy

    ConstitutionCowboy member

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    Hmm - - - And the cost of ammo is going up for what reason?

    Woody
     
  17. WayneConrad

    WayneConrad Member

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    :scrutiny: Since when do reloaders go around making their own jacketed bullets? The ability to recognize these little cups has nothing to do with a reloader's experience level.
     
  18. Sans Authoritas

    Sans Authoritas member

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    jaholder1971 wrote:
    Of course they said it was fine. The SCOTUS didn't raise a peep against any of the unconstitutional acts that F.D.R. perpetrated, either, once he threatened to stack the court with more judges. Similar deal with Lincoln and his "War on Secession."

    The SCOTUS also said that as long as it gets results, DUI checkpoints are fine. Now apply that logic to any other kind of checkpoint you want, including "illegal gun" checkpoints. The SCOTUS said that confiscating and razing people's homes in order to build a shopping complex was constitutional.

    The Supreme Court is filled with people who don't care about what the Constitution originally meant. It's also filled with a few people who simply lack common sense.

    People need to stop caring about what the blackrobes say is "Good enough." They need to start caring about what is just and prudent. Governments have always been famous for being the worst judges of such things.

    Because the Supreme Court rules on something does not mean its decision is correct or just.

    No, Jaholder, I won't "get over" what is contrary to justice and logic. I'll speak out against it.

    -Sans Authoritas
     
  19. Treo

    Treo member

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    Did I miss something? I thought the Army was phasing out the M-60 back in 1996 when I got out. I don't even think the national guard has them , so what do we have that chambers 7.62 ? Is the coax on an Abram's still 7.62?

    EDITED TO ADD
    Hey guys if we participate in the pissing contest San Authoritas is trying to start we will only suceed in getting this thread locked
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2008
  20. RoadkingLarry

    RoadkingLarry Member

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    Still a lot of M14/M1As in service and the number goes up all the time.
     
  21. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

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    240 by FN plus m14 and bolt sniper rifles
     
  22. RedLion

    RedLion Member

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    Don't forget the mini gun!!
     
  23. Sans Authoritas

    Sans Authoritas member

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    The only "contest" in which I am engaging is a rationality contest. I would be thrilled to have someone beat me in that contest. Because then I would be able to learn from him, and acquire and embrace more of what is true.

    -Sans Authoritas
     
  24. Robo_Railer

    Robo_Railer Member

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    I was going to say that anything made of copper and not nailed down could "grow legs," but some things that are/were nailed down have become a target of thieves, too. Apparently church roofs, made of lead, were disappearing over in England. Trucks and other high-clearance vehicles were preferred over passenger cars in dealers' lots because it was easier to get under them and rip off the catalytic converter. (There's platinum in some of those.) And the Detroit City Council drew up new ordinances on scrap dealers after people had air conditioners disappear from their windows because thieves were after the copper tubing inside.

    Some people seem to have a lust for tie plates and other railroad track materials. One of these days (nights), I'm going to catch somebody in the act, and they can find out just what is meant by "crime does not pay."

    California, Ohio, and probably other states have had cases where a thief tried to steal copper electrical cable while it was still energized. A smoking corpse instead of a smoking gun . . .
    As another reader pointed out in comments after one such report, "If the electricity hadn't killed him, the meth habit would have."
     
  25. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    I wonder how much pilferage is responsible for ammo costs.
     
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