Safe in garage and climate variations

Does a goldenrod work well enough to compensate for seasonal climate changes if there is a gun safe in the garage? I don't plan on residing where I do now forever, and getting a safe into the house could prove VERY difficult. By compensation for seasonal climate change, I am referring to extreme cold in winter/heat and humidity in summer to prevent rust on firearms, cracking or damage to wood/finish, etc.

 

I guess it would depend on how much of a temperature variation you have in your area.

Here in Arkansas I certainly would not store any wooden stocked firearms in a garage long term. Wood expands and contracts with fluctuating temperature. We can have 105 in the summer and 10 in the winter. I'm not leaving my wood stocked rifles out in that much of a vast difference.

It may not hurt them, but it makes sense to me that it wouldn't be good for them.

 

I have the same problem here in MI. I've gotten to the point where I can't fit a large enough safe in my house. I have been considering putting one in the garage. It's not heated or cooled either. Interested in seeing the responses.

 

In my experience, no. The goldenrod does not work well enough, especially in humid areas. One of my safes is in an unconditioned garage. It's hot and humid all summer long and it will hit low teens/single digits in the winter.

I have two of the PEET safe driers in it. One was not enough to keep the humidity down in the summer. It did work in the winter but only kept it one degree above ambient. Added a second one and everything is under control.

The nice thing about the PEET driers is they mount in the corners of the safe and don't take up any useable space. You can add up to four of them if you wanted. Just remember that the safe temp will always be above ambient. So if it's 95 in the garage the temp in the safe will be higher. Mine runs 3 degrees above in the summer. I'm not worried because I don't open and close it all the time.

Your biggest concern will be rapid temperature change. Says it's been in the 40s for weeks so the garage is nice and cold. Get a fluke day where the ambient temp is 65. Do not open the garage door if possible. If you do, definitely don't open the safe. Everything in the garage will be below dewpoint and condensation will form immediately. Ask me how I know about this

 

I use a Goldenrod and Zerust vapor capsules.

http://www.zerustproducts.com/products/firearms-ammo-weapons/vapor-capsules-ammo-weapons/

 

I have the biggest safe that Rhino made in my unheated garage. It has an 18" goldenrod that I only plug in in winter, and one of those rechargeable silica packs.

It's been there for five years now and I've had no problems with my guns even on days where the stuff inside the garage was practically dripping with humidity or condensation.

 

Orpington;

At one time, for about 10 years, I had a good sized safe in my garage in Montana. The temperature swings could get pretty wild, but the humidity was always low in comparison with some other parts of the country. I used a Golden Rod & didn't worry about it, never had a problem. This was an attached garage, & the safe door was open several times a week. The humidity probably ranged from 40 to 60%.

900F

 

So it appears, putting this all together that a safe in the garage, depending on your definition of what a "safe" is, is generally okay with a goldenrod and/or a safe drier, but less than ideal. Not having a safe at all is also less than ideal. More comments are WELCOME!

Anyone know the relative temperature swings in a safe in a climate with cold winters and got summers? Also experienced doing just this but over several decades? Is coating metal surfaces with Renaissance was a must?

 

Fella's;

The garage safe in Montana was a Graffunder, with door seals and a tight fit. Therefore, no, or at least not very darn much, air exchange was possible. With some of the RSC's I've seen, the door sealing ability is non-existent to minimal. That would directly bear on the steps you'd want to take to prevent rusting taking place on your firearms.

900F

 

IF I was to get a safe, I am leaning towards a Sturdy. I think that brand provides sufficient seals in the door. If I do purchase this type of safe, will this provide what I need (enough of a barrier to extreme climate fluctuations, humidity, and rust)?

 

Orpington;

That's an issue that's probably better raised directly to Sturdy.

900F

 

Fella's;

All a Goldenrod does is keep the interior of the container above dewpoint, if it can. That prevents the moisture in the air from condensing onto the metal of your guns. It's a low wattage thermostatically controlled heater & that's it.

900F

 

Is your Sturdy going to have a fire lining? If so, do you know if Sturdy's fire material has a high water content? If so, adding some silica to work with the Golden Rod might give you a little extra protection.

You can buy it in bulk and put it into your own bag/container, where you either throw it away or put it in the oven to recharge once it has reached it's capacity (most products will change their color as they become more saturated)
https://www.amazon.com/Quart-Mixed-...TF8&qid=1475631251&sr=8-7&keywords=silica+gel

You can buy it already in a container, where you put the entire container in the oven to 'recharge' it for a few hours
https://www.amazon.com/Cannon-Safe-...475631015&sr=8-2&keywords=silica+dehumidifier
https://www.amazon.com/Dry-Packs-Gr...475631015&sr=8-4&keywords=silica+dehumidifier

Or you can buy a 'wireless' one that comes in a pre-made housing with a built-in heater where you can plug it into the wall when it need recharging
https://www.amazon.com/Improved-Eva...ie=UTF8&qid=1475631185&sr=8-1&keywords=evadry

I've had luck with a combination of bulk and a few of the rechargeable products. With the bulk product I make smaller disposable bags, which I put inside fire-resistant locking cabinets (as these things have a TON of water content, and aren't always sealed very well) and I've shrink wrapped some ammo I plan to store for a while and put some of them inside the shrink wrap. I put a larger rechargeable unit in a larger safe.

 

Yes, I was planning on getting a fire lining. I never considered this, but does a fire lining secrete moisture and/or trap humidity within the safe?

 

Orpington;

Frequently the fire liners in RSC's do have a high retained moisture content. The reason is that the BTU's from the external heat source expend themselves heating the water to steam & keeping the interior temperature of the container within the 350 degree fahrenheit cap. Of course the contents are bathed in hot steam, but what do you care? The absolute temp meets the advertised criteria & that's all that counts to you, right?

Of course the above absolutely depends on what the insulating medium is, but the less expensive gun"safes" are notorious for using a medium that retains moisture. And if it isn't very well sealed, well then after a few years it's evaporated off, no? Typically, the high moisture content insulation used is gypsum wall board. Take the paper exterior layer off it & call it fire rock if you want to, but it's still the same stuff. It's extremely hard to get both good burglary and thermal protection without spending some money. As has been stated on this forum many times, your best low cost alternative may be in the used true safe market.

900F

 

Right. The used true safe market. I do have to go to my local bank later today...and intend to ask whom they use to service their safe...and, hopefully, that will yield a company that has something I am looking for, or know of someone who does.

As you can see, having done nothing yet so far, I don't really like what my options are...so far...even with regards to a Sturdy safe.

 

What are you looking at budget-wise and what kind of interior space do you need?

Have you priced up the Graffunder Bishop? Graffunder calls it a B-rate safe, but they really exceed the B-rate concept with features usually only seen with high-security safes. With the fire-protection, it goes a step further and gets a generous dose of additional armor.

You'll also benefit from a safe that locks up air-tight & is flawlessly sealed (so your issues with humidity become a non-issue) and you are moving to a design with some serious fire protection. That dense concrete can make a big difference in slowing the speed that the internal temp rises, and that can make the difference when it comes to protecting heat-sensitive contents from damage.

Also, have you priced up a Brown HD? This is a very plain safe but it also uses a combination of steel plates and composites. It's starting pricing is aggressive and it is another very well made product that you can count on.

 

One of the Members who sells or sold Graffunder (like CB900F!) might also be able to tell you if you will benefit from the "Rolex Effect." That is, while you will pay more up front, the nicer safe could hold a much higher used pricing percentage than less expensive safes, so if you ever sell it you would lose less money. Since you wind up with something that holds a higher value, this could help justify the higher initial investment.

 

Orpington;

Your bank probably uses Diebold & they won't be very interested in selling you a used safe. What is the nearest urban area to you? I'll check & see who the ALOA/SAVTA locksmiths are. A SAVTA shop should be able to either fill your need or possibly locate one for you.

As for the Rolex effect posed by Cdk8: I, of course, bought my Graffunder garage safe at wholesale. When I sold it, used & some 7 years later, I got the same amount of money I paid for it.

900F

 

Well, as for the Rolex effect...I would really like to buy used and this would have been someone else's problem.

I am near Bethlehem Pennsylvania.

 

All the times I've flown into ABE!

900F

 

But have you priced the safes up new?

You mentioned you were unhappy with your options. Brown and Graffunder's consistency, quality, and performance could provide a reference point for a product that addresses any performance concerns you have with other models? For what it's worth, I've found that pricing new models has been useful for me when deciding whether or not the trade offs of a used commercial security safe were justified by the limited options & pricing.

For example, I believe the 20 cubic foot Brown HD in a TL-15 rating with fire protection starts at around $4,000-ish (not sure where the Graffunder Bishop or Castle starts at.) For me (when shopping), putting that in a side-by-side comparison with options I might not be completely happy with, and against possible used candidates, eventually speaks to me on how much more I get for how much more I pay, and what features I gain or forfeit. To organize it into something I can take in all at once, I've used an Excel spreadsheet to compare features/fire performance/burglary performance/price/warranty/locking mechanism/insurance implications/etc., FWIW.

 

Call Sturdy

The fire lining they use is fiber similar to what is used in industrial ovens. Unlike drywall or concrete, it does not appear to wick moisture.
I may be wrong but I believe I read that Graffunder uses a similar material in their doors. I own a Sturdy but I keep mine in the house.

 

If you go the garage route, I'd suggest checking out craigslist. There are tons of businessmen retiring/ moving/ downsizing/ going digital who no longer need a big safe in their warehouse. You can buy these for pennies. They can either take your $$, leave it for their landlord, or pay someone to move it. Depending on where it is, you might be able to hire a tow truck to move it for you for not much more.