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Safe to fire?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by lernerk392, Nov 26, 2022.

  1. lernerk392

    lernerk392 Member

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    I’ve been having some trouble with a certain ammo lately (PMC Bronze Lot: 223A-0981). Opened up a few boxes preparing for a range trip and noticed 6 of the 20 rounds look like this:
    37A81E80-D36B-4AD5-AF35-40ADE149257E.jpeg

    All came out the same box. This batch of ammo has given me numerous failures to feed, but I didn’t individually inspect them all before hand until today.

    1. Is this safe to fire?

    2. been having short cycling issues, could rounds with dents like this be the culprit?
     
  2. Mk VII

    Mk VII Member

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    I doubt they will chamber. But if they will the dents will iron out on firing. I've seen stuff like this and usually it's been mashed by an MG mechanism etc. Since these haven't been chambered in anything it must be the factory's machinery.
     
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  3. Gun4Fun90

    Gun4Fun90 Member

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    I sometimes have this issue with loose pack ammo regardless of brand. I have never had it with boxed ammo before though.

    as long as the damage is not to bad I fire them usually.
     
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  4. Hugger-4641

    Hugger-4641 Member

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    Yes, as Mk VII mentioned, IF they chamber fully, the dents will come out when fired.
     
  5. gifbohane

    gifbohane Member

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    Ammo sold to distributor as "blemished?" Last year we would have bought it no questions asked.......
     
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  6. TomJ

    TomJ Contributing Member

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    Dumb question time. Will the fact that the brass is dented and therefore compressed somewhat internally cause additional pressure, similar to bullet setback?
     
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  7. Hugger-4641

    Hugger-4641 Member

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    The difference in case volume likely will have a very minor affect. But with factory 223 ammo it won't be enough to notice unless you're trying to Xring at 500yds.
     
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  8. AK Hunter

    AK Hunter Member

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    If they chamber they should be safe. The ones that you don't want to fire is if they have creases in the brass not just dents. The dents will pop out & will eject easily.
     
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  9. AlexanderA

    AlexanderA Member

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    Probably safe to fire, but I wouldn't buy from that ammo supplier again. Quality control is lacking.
     
  10. lernerk392

    lernerk392 Member

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    Yeah. I’m upping my range trip frequency till I shoot it all.
     
  11. tws3b2

    tws3b2 Member

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    The way manufacturers have been running wide open 24hrs 7 days a week the past couple years I don't think a little less quality would be unexpected. I would be more concerned about underpowered/overpowered than dented casings.
     
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  12. Demi-human

    Demi-human maybe likes firearms a little bit…

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    Not a dumb question. But not the same as set back. Bullet setback does reduce chamber volume behind the bullet, but a dented case won’t. The chamber volume isn’t really reduced. In fact, some portion of the energy in the case will be used to push the brass back out to the chamber walls, using some of the pressure to do so, robbing velocities, infinitesimally.

    In the real world this is like taking a pebble out of a loaded dump truck. The dump truck doesn’t know and the landscaping will still be full when it dumps.;)

    Those cases will look just fine after 55,00psi hits them.:D
     
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  13. Archie

    Archie Member

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    Yes, those should be safe to fire. If - They will chamber despite the distortion (dents).

    The pressure will cause the dents to expand out to the shape of the chamber (it will 'fire form' in practice). That presumes the loading is correct. You do not report any excessive pressure with the rounds that did chamber and fire, so I would believe these would be loaded just the same. When fired in your rifle, the cases will not be sufficiently worn to not be reloadable. But check them just in case.
    If you like (and reload already) if the rounds will not chamber, pull the bullets, empty the powder into a clean container, then resize the case without de-priming and reassemble the round. I'd weight the powder charge in this process, but more out of my prurient curiosity than concern, but it will take care of both aspects.
     
  14. 230RN

    230RN I keep pushing that pendulum back.

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    Not dumb. Valid question and I'm happy to see you're thinking ahead.

    Bullet setback will cause high pressure because the burning powder is trying to move a heavy object out of the way that's filling the volume a bit more than a little bitty dent. For dents, pushing the brass back out to where the case wall should be, only involves moving a thin wall of brass back out a little bit.

    Few loads today are 100% full of powder , and the 50,000+ "psi" pressures involved will normally not even notice the slight case volume reduction from a small "normal" dent and will fireform the cases to fill the chamber if they'll chamber in the first place. Don't expect good groups.

    For myself, I would not use them just because I'd like to save them if the manufacturer wanted them back for analysis. You will notify the MFR, won't you?

    But if some are malformed enough to interfere with feeding, I'd backtrack on the fireforming being safe just because that much damage is indicative of general carelessness in manufacture.

    And let's face it, the rule about food could apply here, too: "If in doubt, throw it out."

    Terry, 230RN
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
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  15. lightman

    lightman Member

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    I would not hesitate to shoot those. I would not be happy to have found those in any new ammo that I paid for.
     
  16. DustyGmt

    DustyGmt Member

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    I have not been impressed with PMC bronze ammo. I had one case that had so many KB liabilities that I basically swore the stuff off and going forward, should I ever get some I will be inspecting every cartridge carefully. I have found PMC like the ones you show and in my old phone I have some pictures of some with projectiles seated so deeply I couldn't believe it.

    I dropped the bolt on my AR once and I'm glad that something just happened to catch my attention, just something about the sound was off so I ejected the cartridge and the projectile was just rattling around and the tip was just about level with the case mouth. Not good.
     
    lernerk392 likes this.
  17. lernerk392

    lernerk392 Member

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    Yeah, I’m shooting all I have and investing in a different brand later on. Nothing but problems for me.
     
  18. lernerk392

    lernerk392 Member

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    Is it worth contacting that manufacturer? Genuine question. It seems like this is how they roll, I’d assume they’re aware already
     
    DoubleMag likes this.
  19. 230RN

    230RN I keep pushing that pendulum back.

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    Good question in general. Off-topic, but I've found that a lot of companies make it as difficult as possible to contact them. I got really ticked off enough at one of them (not firearm-related) to find their "Agent For Service from the Colorado Secretary of State and send my complaint to hi for forwarding. Off topic, but something to keep in mind. I have some PMC .357 ammo from decades ago that is fine and looks and shot good. It's my "house standard" ammo, so it doesn't get actually used except for 14 test rounds and 7 in my Taurus couch gun. ("I know what you're thinking, punk. Did he fire seven shots or only six....")

    OK, nobody ask how come I shoot couches and we'll get along fine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
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  20. Hugger-4641

    Hugger-4641 Member

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    I'm not going to judge another for his fetish. Personally, I prefer to shoot appliances, but to each his own. :rofl:
     
  21. Outlaw75

    Outlaw75 Member

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    You should. The worst outcome is they don't care and you lose a little time emailing or calling them. But, they may want the ammo back and replace it with QA'd ammo from the factory.
     
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  22. lernerk392

    lernerk392 Member

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    I sent them a message. We’ll see what they say, if anything at all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
  23. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    Those almost look like range pickups after someone gets a FTF stoppage and they clear the gun by dropping the round out. The bolt lugs leave similar dents in the cases.

    As for those dents in a box of new ammo? Yeeesh! :what:
    There is a machine out of adjustment somewhere in the PMC factory, thats for sure.

    Stay safe.
     
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  24. lernerk392

    lernerk392 Member

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    That’s exactly what it looks like.
     
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  25. tark

    tark Member

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    Are you shooting an AR? Does it have a forward assist? Might be a good time to see if the damn thing works! Just don't go overboard! If the heel of your hand isn't enough, don't go reaching for a soft hammer.
     
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