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Saiga .223 VS AR15

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by ryan.u, Aug 11, 2010.

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  1. ryan.u

    ryan.u Member

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    I am looking into getting some sort of SHTF, target and varmit semi auto .223/5.56 NATO caliber rife. Well earlyer today I was in the military surplus store and looked at their whole selection of "black rifles" and I have narrowed my choices down to a saiga rifle with one 10 round mag, 100 rounds of ammo and a case for $799 or he will build me a custom AR-15 for $1000

    So what do yall think I should get? the Russian saiga wich looks exactly like this one, or should i save up a little longer and get the AR-15?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    i would not trust anyone to build me a custom AR for $1000. besides, it's illegal unless he's a licensed manufacturer. you can buy a very decent AR for under $1000 though, which would be a far better tool than the saiga.
     
  3. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    That price is crazy for a Saiga.

    You can do it yourself for a little over half what they're asking.
     
  4. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Member

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    I agree with both post.You can buy a quality name brand AR15 for way under 1K,and your basic Saiga can be had for less than 1/2 that,and with the add ons in the picture will run you a little more.

    It all depends if you just want a gun that shoots ok,or a gun that shoots great. Most AR's will shoot circles around a Saiga.
     
  5. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

    It is the shooter, not the tool.

    Both platforms will serve their owner well.
     
  6. ryan.u

    ryan.u Member

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    I am 90% sure the rifle was a saiga. It looked almost the same as that but the pistol grip was diffrent and if i recall right the sights looked different, he said thats a "russian sniper rifle" or somethin like that, i dont quite rember, if it want a Siaga what else could it be? He is real resonable on his prices so I cant imagine he would sell a $400 rifle for 800.
     
  7. Cornhusker77

    Cornhusker77 Member

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    Could it be an "Arsenal" version that's been converted?
    If so it's probably priced about right, but I agree with these guys, you can buy a stock Saiga for less than $350, add some time and another hundred or two and have a super nice rifle and the satisfaction of doing the conversion yourself.
    I personally like the Saigas, they are practically indestructible, but I like ARs too.
    If you are looking for an inexpensive .223, the Saiga would be a good one, but if you are going to spend $800, I'd get an AR.
     
  8. ryan.u

    ryan.u Member

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    That Saiga must have been converted because the gunshop owner said "I have seen this exact rifle in this conviguration sell for $1200 at gun show's"

    I acutallt like the Saiga better than AR's i seen, I like the side scope mount with a rail for accesories, plus i can detach the scope with no issue and shoot open sights and slide the scope back on for long range shooting

    I really want a AR-15 but they do jam and break down a bit with the cheap wolf ammo, and I was told this rifle will feed the cheapest ammo with no issues, unlike alot of AR's, I am not looking for a mach grade target rifle, just somethin i can kill yotes at 200 yards with (with a scope of course)

    So I am leaning twards the Saiga, but i am feeling iffy about it... I guess either way I cant go wrong?
     
  9. ryan.u

    ryan.u Member

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    this is what the grip looked like on the one I looked at today

    Saiga2.jpg
     
  10. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    I agree with the above $800 is too much for a rifle like the one pictured. I would rather buy a stock saiga for $350 or so and spend the difference converting the rifle and outfitting it as I like.

    "custom AR" is far too vague to say whether it is worth $1K. I'd be skeptical. For about $1K I got a basic Noveske upper on a lower I put together. It is IMHO a pretty good rifle. Very accurate and much, much more reliable than stereo type of ARs would have you believe. I have been out shooting with people whose mid tier ARs live up to that stereo type. I have also shot with people with some of the same brands that have run just fine.

    I don't know about that. People like to attribute the positives and accuracy of the highest end ARs to all ARs even mid and lower tier guns. Some of those same people like to extrapolate to all AKs from the shoddiest part kits that are poorly assembled to boot.

    My experience is that a S223 will shoot fairly well. The sights are limiting but can be changed.

    I'd take a high end AR as my first choice weapon (something like a noveske) but I'd take a converted Saiga (particularly one modded to my liking) over many of the lesser ARs out there particularly for a fighting rifle.
     
  11. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    Neither of the Saigas you've pictured are worth the price you listed.
     
  12. Opoche

    Opoche Member

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    That s just a regular Warsaw Pact grip for an Ak rifle. Not worth much. I love my Saiga, but for that price you may be able to buy and convert one for much less ( I just used ugly surplus furniture on mine). If it was an Arsenal, it MAY be worth looking at for that price. I must admit, I have no firsthand knowledge about converting the 5.56 Saigas so ymmv.
    Edit: $799, No way. I read $699 on account of my myopia and alcoholism. Even still, too expensive.
     
  13. ryan.u

    ryan.u Member

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    How do I tell if it is a arsenal?
     
  14. lamazza

    lamazza Member

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    The Saiga will give you great reliability and the AR will give you better accuracy.
    Both great rifles IMHO.
     
  15. Opoche

    Opoche Member

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    Right after it says Saiga on the receiver it will say Legion Russia followed by Arsenal Las Vegas Nevada on the rifle. Even still, I've only dealt with Arsenal with an Arsenal SLR-105 (superb) in 5.45. The price doesn't seem too far off for an Arsenal 5.56 (MSRP, which is fairly high IMHO).As far as the AR style rife., given the number of variations, a "custom" rifle could be a rip off or a gem. As far as ARs go, it all depends on the components. They are fairly modular.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2010
  16. Kurt_D

    Kurt_D Member

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    Arsenal's SGL series (Russian) does not come in .223/5.56, yet. So it's NOT an Arsenal; and if it was it'd look like a factory AK-101 not some garage conversion BS that was posted. Arsenal's SLR-106FR (Bulgarian) is 5.56 and comes with a solid side folder and can be had $699-799. It's a nice rifle and I think worth the price, however I'd recommend the AR first since it sounds like your first go at these rifles. Arsenal's SGL-21 & 31 and SLR-107 & 105 are in 7.62 and 5.45 and open a whole other can of worms; but they do fall in the same price range.

    That shop is trying to screw you, don't ever go back. As has been posted above you can get into a Saiga .223 for ~$350 and do the conversion yourself for less than $500 total if the AK is the way you want to go. I'd recommend the AR for anything requiring accuracy, you mentioned varments so I assume you may want an optic at some point as well.

    CDNN is selling S&W M&Ps for a very good price, depending on what you want they start at $699 on up. Hell they have Colt LE6920s listed at $1096, if I was going to drop $1000 on an AR that would be it! Local shops around here have Bushmaster ARs in the $800-900 dollar range and M&Ps about the same.

    I promise you if you let this conartist build you a "custom" AR for $1000 you'll end up with a Model 1 (if you're lucky) or Blackthorne crap kit on the cheapest lower money can buy, and he'll spend 15 minutes to put it together (assuming he doesn't buy a complete upper and lower) and pocket the extra $500 while telling you some made up BS story about how he matched all the parts up, hand fitted them, etc while saying this is what Delta/SEALS/whatever use, etc.
     
  17. Kurt_D

    Kurt_D Member

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    Wanted to add:

    Get on AR15.com and do some research, read and use the search feature, it'll keep you from getting screw. Plus they do have hometown forums which could recommend someone better than that shop. They cover ARs cover to cover and there's a good bit of AK knowledge there to. They have tons of sponsers, who, surprise, sells firearms, and a good classifeds section (EE) to shop in.

    Armed with the knowledge of what you want's price it'll be easier to shop local. OR go another route, use gunbroker to find a list of local FFLs (assuming AR15's hometown forums come up dry) and call around and ask about transfers. You should beable to find someone to do them for $20-25 OTD with no other BS. That way you can order from whoever online has the best price and have them ship it to your FFL for transfer. Like I said in the previous post CDNN has good prices on S&W M&Ps, Colt ARs and many others. You can download their catalog and/or sign up for their e-mails.
     
  18. stiletto raggio

    stiletto raggio Member

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    If you are going to go with a .223 Saiga, you need to make sure it has a ramp installed and mod it to take some sort of readily available magazine. Galil mags are getting to be cheap again, so I would go that route.

    That said, you can get an entry-level AR for at or under $650 these days, so think hard. All of my AKs are Saigas, and they are the best of what they are, but I would not overlook the many advantages of the AR system.
     
  19. PAPACHUCK

    PAPACHUCK Member

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    You can have both, you know.....

    get one now and the other later.
     
  20. Hunterdad

    Hunterdad Member

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    Build your own AR for around $700 and save money on both ends.
     
  21. ctbullseye

    ctbullseye Member

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    Mississippi Auto Arms has the Saiga 223 with 16" barrel for 315.00, great deal for a rock solid rifle. I have had mine for 3 years and it is a great shooter, accurate as an AK comes, and if the SHTF, it is my go to weap. It is forgiving and can take all the abuse one can dish out, and always goes bang.
     
  22. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    In my opinion, that is way too much money for a Saiga; you should be able to find them for 300 or less now; and converted allready for 500 to 550.
    I would make sure the converion uses a forestock that has rails on it.
    another thing is this; the ar, while I don't have one, and do have a saiga, is going to have many more parts available for them right now, and also more mags- if you don't convert that saiga, and finally, you can hang more goodies on the front of an ar, than you can on a saiga. now there is a new rail out now, for Saigas, that is a fully railed foreend, and you can hang lots of stuff on that, but it is pretty pricey; I think it was about 150 bucks or more-- but it is a very nice solidly built one.
     
  23. bri

    bri Member

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    I'd pass on both offers. Order a complete AR upper and lower (check out BCM, Spikes or others), assemble, then you have yourself a quality .223/5.56 for the same prices as that Saiga.

    If the AR doesn't quench your thirst for EBRs, then pick up a Saiga or Arsenal in 7.62x39. Consequently, you end up with both calibers and a larger collection. :)

    Also, I wouldn't worry too much about running steel-cased ammo through an AR. I haven't been in the game very long but still haven't experienced a single failure in 500 rnds of steel-case so far...
     
  24. teirst

    teirst Member

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    I don't think it is fair to say "order a complete upper and lower for the price of the saiga."

    As was mentioned before that saiga is greatly overpriced, a place to obtain them for much cheaper was also mentioned (Mississippi auto). Upon looking at their site for under $350 you can find AK's in 545, 556, and 762. They also have full conversion kits starting at $150. If you were ok with going to 545 or 762 aimsurplus has wasr's in for ak47 and ak74 for less then $400.

    Now a WASR is not of the quality of a $800 AR, however it is also 1/2 the price. I think what you really need to do is decide how much money you would really "like" to spend and what your requirements are.

    If you are looking for some fun plinking and sub 2" groups is not a major issue an AK74 is hard to beat. Especially when you can pick up surplus ammo (at aimsurplus) for about 0.12 a round.



    ammo http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=A54539R&groupid=179
    WASR http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1CAKWASR2&groupid=208

    EDIT: also I apologize for this being my first post, I thought i had already said Hello on this forum. I will post in the "meet and greet" section aswell
     
  25. ryan.u

    ryan.u Member

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    Ok, guys, thanks for the help. I decided to go with a AR. Propbably the S&W MP 15 or a DPMS one.
     
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