Saiga Ak 74 vs AR 15

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I was going to post a new thread, but if I get get answeres here I won't

Is there a gall in 5.45?
Overall, how do galils preform?
 
Overall, how do galils perform?

Adequately.

It never was used in large amounts and was overshadowed in service by AR type carbines and rifles which were not only cheaper for the IDF to purchase but were much preferred by most IDF personnel.

The few (comparatively speaking) galils that entered service ended up mostly in the hands of mounted or support personnel and border guards, though the last bunch of Magavnikim I chatted up all had ancient slick side CAR15s.

The micro-tavor is the new issue weapon for everybody but who knows when they will start showing up in significant numbers.

http://www.israel-weapon.com/?catid={ED781BF5-92EB-43AB-BAC7-D89BFBC28144}
 
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Going back to the saiga and the conversion kits...
What are they needed for? I see saigas that come in the sporter model, and regular with the pistol grip.. I think I'm missing something here.
Can the stock Saiga ak74 accept 30+ rd mags?
What am I missing?
 
Going back to the saiga and the conversion kits...
What are they needed for? I see saigas that come in the sporter model, and regular with the pistol grip.. I think I'm missing something here.
The Saigas you see that look like a standard AK started life as sporter models. They had to in order to be legally imported to the US. There may not be a federal ban on so-called assault weapons, but there is still a prohibition on the import of non-sporting firearms, and the manufacture of non sporting firearms from too many imported parts. Once here some companies and distributors convert Saigas to standard AK configuration, but replace enough foreign made parts with US made parts to make them legal.
Can the stock Saiga ak74 accept 30+ rd mags?
What am I missing?
AK 74 mags won't fit a 5.45 Saiga without both modifying the mag well, and adding a bullet guide / feed ramp into the receiver to get the ammo to feed properly because the tops of AK mags sit too low in the Saiga receiver. There are US made Saiga mags over 10 round capacity which fit into an unmodified mag well, and have a feed ramp / bullet guide integrated into the magazine itself because these magazines sit a bit higher in the mag well. Unfortunately I've only seen them available in 5.56, 7.62x39, and .308; but not 5.45 yet.

Dinzag Arms is one of the more reputable suppliers of both factory Russian and US conversion Saiga parts. Here are some links that may help:
http://www.dinzagarms.com/mags/mags.html#
http://www.dinzagarms.com/922r/922r.html
 
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AK 74 mags won't fit a 5.45 Saiga without both modifying the mag well, and adding a bullet guide / feed ramp into the receiver to get the ammo to feed properly because the tops of AK mags sit too low in the Saiga receiver. There are US made Saiga mags over 10 round capacity which fit into an unmodified mag well, and have a feed ramp / bullet guide integrated into the magazine itself because these magazines sit a bit higher in the mag well. Unfortunately I've only seen them available in 5.56, 7.62x39, and .308; but not 5.45 yet.


Not true.

Bulgarian, Russian, E. German bakelight, and Romanian polymer and steel '74 mags are identical and should lock in the Saiga without any modification. Many of the guys on Saiga-12.com claim the Saigas will even run fine without the bullet guide. Mine will too, but I installed the guide in both of them anyway.

Surefire doesn't make 30 round 5.45 mags because there are plenty of new, unissued Bulgarian mags around for a fraction of the cost that Surefire could make them. Also Tapco has gotten into the game with very good 10 and 30 rounders for $8 and $13 respectively. Tapco claims the mags will need a bullet guide to function properly.


M
 
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M1key, thanks for the correction on the 5.45 Saiga / AK mag compatability. How does using a foreign made mag over 10 rounds in stock Saiga affect legality regarding "sporting purposes"?
 
So assuming I did get a Saiga 74, would I need to convert it to have 30 rd mag be used reliably?
If not, why do people even convert them in the first place?
Also, is there a difference between the brands Arsenal and Saiga? I was under the assumption they were the same.
 
M1key, thanks for the correction on the 5.45 Saiga / AK mag compatability. How does using a foreign made mag over 10 rounds in stock Saiga affect legality regarding "sporting purposes"?
Any mag that holds over 10 rounds is illegal in a factory Saiga.

M
 
I can't figure out what I want either, I want either a AR 15 in 5.56 or a Saiga in .223 or 5.45. The Saiga would be cheaper to convert than for me to build an AR 15 with that stripped receiver I have but the AR 15 is better overall IMO. I am starting to lean more to the Saiga after handling a stock "sporting" Saiga next to an AR 15 carbine but even so I'm still unsure.
 
So then the conversion makes it legal?

Its the adding US manufactured parts that makes it legal.

stolen from TAPCO, of all places:

Title 18 Chapter 44 Section 922(r) of the United States Code, defined further by Title 27 Part 478.39 of the Code of Federal Regulation (CFR), ambiguously restricts semiautomatic rifles and shotguns to no more 10 imported parts from a list of 20 parts.


27 C.F.R. 478.89 lists 20 parts:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings

(2) Barrels

(3) Barrel extensions

(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)

(5) Muzzle attachments

(6) Bolts

(7) Bolt carriers

(8) Operating rods

(9) Gas pistons

(10) Trigger housings

(11) Triggers

(12) Hammers

(13) Sears

(14) Disconnectors

(15) Butt stocks

(16) Pistol grips

(17) Forearms, hand guards

(18) Magazine bodies

(19) Followers

(20) Floorplates



Of these twenty parts, the laws states that you can have NO MORE THAN 10 imported parts on your semi-automatic rifle or shotgun. These twenty parts are meant to cover all platforms, and as you know all platforms are not the same. Without getting into specific platforms, starting out you know that you will not have to change more than 10 parts to ensure your rifle is compliant.
 
I think that what you need to convert depends on when the gun was made and imported. Mine needed a new feed ramp and other mods. But newer imports may not.
 
Not true.

Bulgarian, Russian, E. German bakelight, and Romanian polymer and steel '74 mags are identical and should lock in the Saiga without any modification. Many of the guys on Saiga-12.com claim the Saigas will even run fine without the bullet guide. Mine will too, but I installed the guide in both of them anyway.

Surefire doesn't make 30 round 5.45 mags because there are plenty of new, unissued Bulgarian mags around for a fraction of the cost that Surefire could make them. Also Tapco has gotten into the game with very good 10 and 30 rounders for $8 and $13 respectively. Tapco claims the mags will need a bullet guide to function properly.


M

M1key,

I thought the issue was that Saiga's could only use single stack AK mags and the usual high capacity double stack mags were too wide to fit into the mag well without alteration.

Regards,

EG
 
Bulgarian, Russian, E. German bakelight, and Romanian polymer and steel '74 mags are identical and should lock in the Saiga without any modification. Many of the guys on Saiga-12.com claim the Saigas will even run fine without the bullet guide. Mine will too, but I installed the guide in both of them anyway.

How reliable are the converted Saigas with those magazines without a bullet guide? I'm looking to avoid installing one unless I absolutely have to.
 
You could try running without one first, and if you have problems, have one put in later. Bullet guides are pretty easy to install and ensure reliable feeding. Some guys install them whether they are needed or not. Heck, you can even glue one in with JB Weld yourself.

M
 
I've decided against converting, does anyone know where I can find a converted 5.45 Saiga for cheap?
 
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