Sale of Reloaded Ammo

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Charlie Martinez, Apr 2, 2021.

  1. Charlie Martinez

    Charlie Martinez Member

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    I reload all my ammo and lately have been giving a few friends a box or two of reloaded pistol ammo for practice because they can't buy it anywhere. One suggested that I reload a few extra boxes every week and sell them.
    Would this be legal?
     
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  2. BreechFace

    BreechFace Member

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    Ammo you reloaded and are selling, not without the appropriate licensing.

    Manufacturing license, excise taxes, and liability insurance. All the aforementioned hurdles are not for the weekend reloader for friends. I
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
  3. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    I am not sure of the legality of occasionally selling a few boxes to friends. Hopefully the authorities in your area have better things to do with their time, at any rate.

    I would be wary of anything that makes you look like a manufacturer or a business, such as selling to strangers for a profit, advertising your services, etc.
     
  4. unwashed

    unwashed Member

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    I wouldn't do it just because of the liability that goes along with it.
     
  5. ducky123

    ducky123 Member

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    What happens if something goes wrong while your ammo is being shot? Even if your ammo had nothing to do with it, it will cost you thousands of dollars in legal fees. Give them a box and tell your friend he owes you a favor. He thinks he owes you a BIG favor with current ammo prices so it is win-win.
     
  6. Bayou52

    Bayou52 Member

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    I concur with the above. The "sale for profit" of reloaded ammo requires appropriate licensing under the GCA.

    I also concur that the issue liability for the use of reloaded ammo by any third party is an issue in addition to the proper licensing concern.

    Bayou52
     
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  7. Goes211

    Goes211 Member

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    Everytime you give away a box of ammo borrow $20 from your buddy. Problem solved.
     
  8. Bayou52

    Bayou52 Member

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    Another work-around if you, as a known reloader, are asked for reloaded ammo from a friend/acquaintance: tell them that for liability purposes, you can't give them the ammo, but that they are invited to come over and make their own ammunition themselves. No one ever does, in my experience, at least...

    Bayou52
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
  9. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    That is a good point. I have done essentially this on three occasions. One guy declined, one guy came over and loaded a couple of boxes, paying me for the components (we used his brass), and one guy turned into a handloader himself and picked my brain for several months as he bought equipment and refined his process. Even though it was many years ago, I still look back on it with pleasure.
     
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  10. vongh

    vongh Member

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    Along with the above. Even if it were legal and it's not. It has the potential to turn a lovable hobby into the drudgery of a job that will quickly burn you out. If you were interested in doing this for profit. Call the atf they had a packet for me and were really good to talk to. Once all the licenses are good you have to get the blessings of your local municipality for and then there's insurance. Notification on the fire department. So they can evacuate your neighborhood if there is a fire. And if there is they'll just let everything burn. Not to mention the equipment cost. Heck I'm getting tired just thinking about all hoops you have to jump through just to sell reloaded ammo. Components is a big issue now a days also.
     
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  11. EricBu

    EricBu Member

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    So, as a person who's in the process of wading through local permitting, and a type 06 FFL, and has done massive amounts of research, and spent more than a couple of bucks on legal advice:

    1. The ITARS requirement is gone for small arms ammunition.
    2. There is no federal requirement for insurance.
    3. Each state and locality has a different definition of what constitutes a home business, commercial enterprise, need for liability insurance, and any related permitting requirements.
    4. Reloading ammunition and manufacturing ammunition are two different things. There is some grey here. Producing ammunition from all new components with the intent of selling it for profit is a clear and concise description of manufacturing ammunition. Reloading a previously expended cartridge provided by the other party (usually the brass case) for a reasonable charge for the cost of components used, and not done with the express intent of profit is NOT considered manufacturing by the ATF. This is where it would be up to you to dig into your local laws. So, TLDR; Reloading ammo with the intent of selling it for profit, especially if you use all new components, may constitute manufacturing. Reloading for you friends that bring you their brass, and reimburse you for the cost of the components is not manufacturing, but may not be legal in your state or local jurisdiction.
     
  12. IMAhobbyist

    IMAhobbyist Member

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    Do you honestly believe one's risk of litigation would be any less if the ammo were given rather than sold?

    Whenever I see threads regarding sharing of reloads, someone always comes up with the legal liability cost issue. For any of those who may be reading this, have you ever sold a used firearm or would you destroy one first before allowing possible liability risk to arise from such sale or gift?
     
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  13. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

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    better than selling ammo and getting into legal stuff ... have a reloading party and teach your buddies about reloading! then have a poker party with ammo as chips
     
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  14. ducky123

    ducky123 Member

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    If the round itself caused the issue, probably not. If the round did NOT cause the issue, then probably.
     
  15. Charlie Martinez

    Charlie Martinez Member

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    Not a bad idea but unfortunately I am a lousy poker player.
     
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  16. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

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    alright, so I’m invited then???
     
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  17. Charlie Martinez

    Charlie Martinez Member

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    Thanks to everyone for their responses.
     
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  18. bullseye308

    bullseye308 Member

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    The general consensus is reloading for profit requires a license, but there is some grey area in that. The best to do is call your local ATF office and tell them what you intend to do and weather you need a license or not.
     
  19. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

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    dont all the ATF.... just don’t sell your reloads man!
     
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  20. MatrixReality

    MatrixReality Member

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    I would not call ATF about anything, and I would not sell any ammo except to very close friends that I would trust with my life. You don’t want to be red-flagged by the ATF for any reason. Hell, if you do a search on b-mb making and on making illegal x-plo-sives, they may make a raid on your house at midnight! I think it’s going to come to that if the Democrats have their way
     
  21. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

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    Should I sell reloads?!?!?!, call ATF, .... better hide your dog
     
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  22. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    Ask the person who sold the ammo to the perp who shot up LasVegas a while back.
    Oh, that’s right, you can’t. He’s in a federal prison. He had been previously warned by ATF as he was selling reloaded 5.56 at gun shows.

    I was a class 6 manufacturer back in the early’80’s before the McClure-Volkmer bill allowed mail order sale of reloading components to non licensed persons (only ffl holders could ship or receive powder, primers, or bulk bullets.... reason I got into casting...).
    I had ffl license, business license, and liability insurance. Insurance was 1,500/yr for $1,000,000 policy. Before first round sold!
    After I could buy powder/primers/bullets from distributors w/o license I gave it up. I was selling 500,000rds a year mostly to local PD’s and LEO’s. .38spl. After 9mm craze started, everybody wanted jacketed bullets and could buy factory bulk for less than I could reload it.
    Then, the Clintons raised the cost of license renewal to $500/yr just as my license was set to renew (had been $60/3yr).
    Not worth the hassle or risk.
     
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  23. kcofohio
    • Contributing Member

    kcofohio Contributing Member

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    When I saw in the news they were going after the reloader, that got my attention. I never sold any reloads, nor thought about it. But back in '13 I sold a handgun to a guy I know well. I gave him a box of reloads to go with it, as ammo was hard to come by then as now. After they grabbed the guy that did the reloads, I determined I wasn't going to chance that again. I know it isn't the same scale, but I like my doors intact.
     
  24. EricBu

    EricBu Member

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    He also had a web page, and was selling loaded AP ammo (not just SS109s, but AP). By the way, a type 06 FFL is 30.00 and has been for as long as I can remember. Ammo manufacturing specific liability and structure insurance starts around 2500 now.
     
  25. EricBu

    EricBu Member

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    Let's be clear...that guy wasn't a "reloader" he was flat out manufacturing. He had a HUGE setup, was selling at gun shows, selling to local shops, and selling online. He was way off the reservation........beyond any stretch of the rules, and had no viable defense at all.....hell, his website was still up and running when he was arrested. LOL, the genius even had branded, custom printed boxes...which is how they caught him.....the vegas shooter still had ammo in the original boxes with the guys name and addy on them.
     
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