Salon: The Hitler Gun Control Lie

[dfsixstring]

If you'll research the history of gun control legislation in this country, you'll see that the first attempt (by dems) after the civil war was against blacks. The Dems wanted to prohibit freed blacks from owning guns. This was also another instance of when the Republicans came to the aid of blacks. It is always about controlling people and NEVER about freedom or safety.


Dfsixstring
SR9c
LCP
RST4S

 

[Deanimator]

COSMOLINE is exactly right, and I just want to add THIS... an uprising actually closed a death camp. ALWAYS resist.

When you tell them about things like that, it actually seems to make them ANGRY as if it were some sort of cosmic injustice that people would actually use VIOLENCE to AVOID being murdered.

By all appearances, they can excuse even the most hideously violent AGGRESSION, but anything that hints at violent SELF-DEFENSE profoundly offends them. They treat all humanity as some kind of herd of antelope or a "bait ball" of fish. For them, the kudu biting the lions or the sardines biting the swordfish is just "wrong". They believe that your only "defense" should be numbers and keeping to the center of the "herd" or "school"...

 

[Deanimator]

If you'll research the history of gun control legislation in this country, you'll see that the first attempt (by dems) after the civil war was against blacks.

It was Indians before that.

But the point is well taken that the point of gun control is ALWAYS control, NOT guns, and inevitably control of disfavored races, ethnicities or religions.

The history of gun control in North America is the history of violent White supremacism. Pointing that out makes anti-gunners literally insane with rage. It even provokes some of them to racial and ethnic slurs. Needless to say, I throw that back in their faces EVERY chance I get.

 

[BHP FAN]

Deanamator, you make an excellent point, gun control is racist. It's also class warfare as the wealthy 2% can hire security, and the rest of us have to be our own security.

 

[Deanimator]

Deanamator, you make an excellent point, gun control is racist. It's also class warfare as the wealthy 2% can hire security, and the rest of us have to be our own security.

There are few things more nauseating than a cowardly billionaire telling working people that they shouldn't be able to defend themselves, while cowering behind phalanxes of heavily armed men.

 

[BHP FAN]

Even more so, when that fat cat is one of our ''civil servants''!

 

[ilbob]

Most of the ones who couldn't contribute to the development of a fission bomb, or some other militarily useful technology, had no place to go.

Besides that, some DID leave but weren't able to go FAR enough. Who suspected in 1936 that France or the Netherlands wouldn't be far ENOUGH?

And then there were the Jews who were never in Germany to start with. A room temperature IQ crypto-Nazi at work once told a Jewish friend to "go back where he came from", to which my friend replied, "Where, Auschwitz?". His father was a native born Romanian Jew living in that country when the war started. Should he have "left the country"? And to where, POLAND??? That's where he ended up anyway.

That of course leaves aside the question of why one would NOT want to kill Nazis if ones ultimate fate was extermination regardless of what one did. Apart from dim witted unilateral pacifists, nobody's EVER been able to give me a coherent explanation of the downside of taking some of ones wouldbe murderers with you.

German Jews had a lot more of a shot at moving on, but the sad fact is that very few that had the means actually did. Jews in the east just never had the chance to go anywhere, and in any case, very few would have done so. I would bet the Jews that moved to France of Holland had a better shot at surviving than those that chose to stick around.

People are very good at fooling themselves into believing what is convenient rather than what is in fact truly going on. Many Jews (maybe most) actively opposed any attempt by Jews at self defense on the grounds that it might annoy the Nazis.

 

[BHP FAN]

''I would bet the Jews that moved to France of Holland had a better shot at surviving..''

I've been to Anne Frank's house...in Holland.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

And the ancillary claim that Jews could have stopped the Holocaust with more guns doesn’t make any sense at all if you think about it for more than a minute."

Germany lost about 5.5 million servicemen in WWII.

Around 6 million Jews were rounded up and slaughtered during the holocaust, which itself killed 11 million people.

Perhaps the Jewish people couldn't have stopped the Holocaust. But I rather imagine that if a significant percentage of the ablebodied portion of those 6 million Jews who were slaughtered were armed, they could have made it a very costly venture for NAZI Germany through underground and direct armed civilian conflict. And all in the heart of Germany, too. Germany would have lost quite a bit more than 5.5 million as a result.

Or maybe less, if it had resulted in shortening the war somewhat.

If a body of 6 million armed people (11 million when you count everybody affected by the Holocaust) were to find out that they were to be put to death by their government by the trainload, you can bet there would have been internal problems in the country of Germany.

Heck no, NAZI Germany didn't want them armed. It's a real problem when scapegoats and social dissidents shoot back by the millions.

 

[BHP FAN]

Wow, Chief, I'm impressed. Why more people don't get this, I just can't understand. It seems like common sense, to me. I guess common sense just isn't that common, anymore.
USN HTFN, DDG-19 1976-1980, by the way.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Wow, Chief, I'm impressed. Why more people don't get this, I just can't understand. It seems like common sense, to me. I guess common sense just isn't that common, anymore.
USN HTFN, DDG-19 1976-1980, by the way.

I, too, do not get this at all.

It's stuff like this this which was the reason General Dwight D. Eisenhower directed the careful and explicit documentation of all the graphic evidence at these concentration camps. It was an unprecidented round up and slaughter of people on a scale never before witnessed in human history...a scale so large as to be unbelievable otherwise, and which would thus be more easily subject to denial by future generations.

It happened. Period. And it happened the way it did. Period.

Efforts today to minimize what happened get on my nerves, whether it be by people outright denying it ever happened, people saying the events leading up to it (like gun control) were a lie, or they ignore the fact that the 6 million Jews were only about half the total slaughtered.

 

[Shadow 7D]

They forget the rest of those interned
they forget that common german criminals of certain classes were sent to the camps

they forget that all 'undesirables' were interned to DIE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badges

 

[BHP FAN]

Never Forget.We Shall Remember.

 

[Shadow 7D]

They forget, they don't care
ADHD
'slow'
talk with a lisp, speech impediment
walk with a limp
are you disabled...

I could go on, the horrors,
these people don't get how things are else where
they don't know the crap that goes on in the world
the don't here the translator telling your captain how the old Clan chief (iraq) quit after Al Quada killed his son, and served his head during negotiations.

they don't get how bad stuff gets, where this path leads.
if the left did, why would they ever want to walk it?

 

[Seanxlu]

+1 on Diane Feinstein being Jewish. She either is forgetful or believes history doesn't repeat itself.

 

[JFtheGR8]

Facts are horrible things when they don't fit the narrative aren't they?

So very High Road here. Not.

Don't be upset when members of a pro-gun forum debunk a anti-gun piece of media. Defending our 2A right has become a top priority as of late and there is flawed logic in the article.


Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Perhaps the Jewish people couldn't have stopped the Holocaust. But I rather imagine that if a significant percentage of the ablebodied portion of those 6 million Jews who were slaughtered were armed, they could have made it a very costly venture for NAZI Germany through underground and direct armed civilian conflict. And all in the heart of Germany, too. Germany would have lost quite a bit more than 5.5 million as a result.

Or maybe had Germany drafted the Jews like other citizens, Europe would be called Germany now.

Heck no, NAZI Germany didn't want them armed. It's a real problem when scapegoats and social dissidents shoot back by the millions.

No, Germany did not want them armed because it would have been inconvenient. Armed but disorganized people would not have stopped a military power. Germany did many to defeat several countries before the populaces and militaries were disarmed, some of which attempted organized resistance.

As Shadow 7D pointed out that the 6 million exterminated were not just Jews. Plus, they were not just Germans. In reality, most probably were not. According to the sources cited in Wiki, only 1-3.1 million German civilians died as a result of crimes against humanity. Not all of those were German Jews. Total German deaths from the war were less than 9 million and nearly 6 million were military casualties.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Or maybe had Germany drafted the Jews like other citizens, Europe would be called Germany now.



No, Germany did not want them armed because it would have been inconvenient. Armed but disorganized people would not have stopped a military power. Germany did many to defeat several countries before the populaces and militaries were disarmed, some of which attempted organized resistance.

As Shadow 7D pointed out that the 6 million exterminated were not just Jews. Plus, they were not just Germans. In reality, most probably were not. According to the sources cited in Wiki, only 1-3.1 million German civilians died as a result of crimes against humanity. Not all of those were German Jews. Total German deaths from the war were less than 9 million and nearly 6 million were military casualties.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

Some good points.

However, there are many ways for armed resistance to occur and it doesn't have to be in open conflict on a battlefield against a well armed and organized army. History is repleat with guerilla and underground movements.

Armed resistance by underground movements behind enemy lines cannot be underestimated in their value and effectiveness towards overall war efforts. They may not be a coordinated combat infantry, but efforts at espionage, infiltration, disruptions of supply lines, sabatage, and assinations are powerful tools, well suited for underground movements and guerilla tactics.

As for "the 6 million exterminated were not just Jews" comment, that is incorrect. 6 million Jews WERE exterminated in the Holocaust. However, they represented approximately 1/2 of the total 11 million who died in the Holocaust.

I already covered that, and the German military casualties, in my previous postings.

 

[hq]

Two common misconceptions have to be pointed out.

First of all, gun control originated from Weimar republic and one of the main reasons were to prevent extremists like the national socialist party from obtaining them. That didn't help at all, nazis were very good at circumventing laws while many other, competing socialist movements (social Democrats, communists) weren't and there has been a lot of speculation how much strict gun laws actually HELPED nazis to gain power. After they did, they used the existing legislation and their own (racially biased) additions to it to their advantage. When Kristallnacht occurred in November 1938 there was little chance of resistance because the intended victims had been disarmed years earlier.

Always take a look at the big picture. Anti-gun lobby can keep their monopoly of distorting facts to their own advantage.